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OakRaiders3828
Joined: 18 Aug 2007
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Location: Pennsylvania
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 Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:50 am Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Tony Bergstrom |
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| oakdb36 wrote: | | Frankie2Gunz wrote: |
Come one man... Our first pick was the last pick in the 3rd round. Look over the drafts of the last 10 years and show me elite impact players that are there at the end of the 3rd. You're making it sound like we are passing up sure fire studs. Far from the case.
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I just think there were guys with higher ceilings available. They probably were a bit more risky as well, for various reasons. We went the safe route imo. |
Which we Should have done IMO. It was our first pick, he didn't want to risk it with a boom or bust type pick. He picked what in his eyes is a sure thing.
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Raiiiiidersssss
Joined: 23 Jan 2007
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Location: The Black Hole
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:51 am Post subject: |
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Reggie said that he's more risk adverse, so the pick makes sense. Hopefully we grab a NT today though.
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oakdb36
Joined: 02 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:55 am Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Tony Bergstrom |
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| OakRaiders3828 wrote: |
Which we Should have done IMO. It was our first pick, he didn't want to risk it with a boom or bust type pick. He picked what in his eyes is a sure thing. |
I don't understand why being our first pick should make a difference. |
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OakRaiders3828
Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 9153
Location: Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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| oakdb36 wrote: | | big_palooka wrote: | I love how people take the 'opinions' of bloggers, talking heads and the media as absolute fact.
Only fact here is we have no idea the inner workings of an NFL team, their scouting department, what role the want a player to be etc.
It's opinion. Just because 'popular' opinion suggests something about a player, doesn't mean it holds weight. Time and time and time and time again we see the 'sure fire 1st round pick' drop to the 4th round and some team drafts him and everyone cries 'steal'. 3 years later, that player is nothing. Drafter exactly where he should have been.
And the flip side you get the Veldheers, the Moores, the Colstons, the Fosters, etc. that the media don't hype and all they did is show they were more worthy of a top selection than 50% of those who were.
Stopping slurping up the media dribble as truth. It's not. It's opinion. |
There's some truth to that. Why don't you use the same logic when assessing the Broncos picks for example?
See that's a problem for me. If the Broncos pick a guy projected to go lower by the media, it's a terrible pick and a reach. If it's the Raiders, stop slurping up the media dribble as truth. Not a fan of double standard, kills credibility in my eyes. |
Never said that, I think Wolfe will be a good player, was it a reach though? Yes. But that wont matter if he turns out better than guys projected ahead of him.
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true2form
Joined: 01 Jan 2010
Posts: 671
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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I knew this was going to happen. Every year guys talk themselves into a player or two. When they inevitably do not get picked everyone is upset.
I agree we need a NT at some point and hopefully we'll get one today. However, I think OG was probably our biggest need when you look at the Oline as a whole. I mean at this point, outside of practice squad guys, Barksdale was our only backup Olineman!!
Oline not a need? Think again my friends.
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dante9876
Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Posts: 17531
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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| oakdb36 wrote: | | big_palooka wrote: | I love how people take the 'opinions' of bloggers, talking heads and the media as absolute fact.
Only fact here is we have no idea the inner workings of an NFL team, their scouting department, what role the want a player to be etc.
It's opinion. Just because 'popular' opinion suggests something about a player, doesn't mean it holds weight. Time and time and time and time again we see the 'sure fire 1st round pick' drop to the 4th round and some team drafts him and everyone cries 'steal'. 3 years later, that player is nothing. Drafter exactly where he should have been.
And the flip side you get the Veldheers, the Moores, the Colstons, the Fosters, etc. that the media don't hype and all they did is show they were more worthy of a top selection than 50% of those who were.
Stopping slurping up the media dribble as truth. It's not. It's opinion. |
There's some truth to that. Why don't you use the same logic when assessing the Broncos picks for example?
See that's a problem for me. If the Broncos pick a guy projected to go lower by the media, it's a terrible pick and a reach. If it's the Raiders, stop slurping up the media dribble as truth. Not a fan of double standard, kills credibility in my eyes. |
Great freaking post oakdb. I love how people can judge divisional rivals picks and say they are reachings or suck. Then turn around and say you cant know the truth about our pick and dont listen to what the media and scouts say. Doesnt make any sense. This is why I dont really get into discussing the draft or players unless I have watch them constantly on saturday's (Pryor and Martin). For the most part we all are going by some website, youtube clip, or media or scout to judge players. |
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OakRaiders3828
Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 9153
Location: Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:06 pm Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Tony Bergstrom |
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| oakdb36 wrote: | | OakRaiders3828 wrote: |
Which we Should have done IMO. It was our first pick, he didn't want to risk it with a boom or bust type pick. He picked what in his eyes is a sure thing. |
I don't understand why being our first pick should make a difference. |
He's trying to make the most out of the few picks he has.
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OakRaiders3828
Joined: 18 Aug 2007
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Location: Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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| dante9876 wrote: | | oakdb36 wrote: | | big_palooka wrote: | I love how people take the 'opinions' of bloggers, talking heads and the media as absolute fact.
Only fact here is we have no idea the inner workings of an NFL team, their scouting department, what role the want a player to be etc.
It's opinion. Just because 'popular' opinion suggests something about a player, doesn't mean it holds weight. Time and time and time and time again we see the 'sure fire 1st round pick' drop to the 4th round and some team drafts him and everyone cries 'steal'. 3 years later, that player is nothing. Drafter exactly where he should have been.
And the flip side you get the Veldheers, the Moores, the Colstons, the Fosters, etc. that the media don't hype and all they did is show they were more worthy of a top selection than 50% of those who were.
Stopping slurping up the media dribble as truth. It's not. It's opinion. |
There's some truth to that. Why don't you use the same logic when assessing the Broncos picks for example?
See that's a problem for me. If the Broncos pick a guy projected to go lower by the media, it's a terrible pick and a reach. If it's the Raiders, stop slurping up the media dribble as truth. Not a fan of double standard, kills credibility in my eyes. |
Great freaking post oakdb. I love how people can judge divisional rivals picks and say they are reachings or suck. Then turn around and say you cant know the truth about our pick and dont listen to what the media and scouts say. Doesnt make any sense. This is why I dont really get into discussing the draft or players unless I have watch them constantly on saturday's (Pryor and Martin). For the most part we all are going by some website, youtube clip, or media or scout to judge players. |
It's discussion, it happens with every teams fans. Of course everyone wants our guys to pan out and Denver's to suck lol. I never once bashed Denver's draft, but there's really nothing wrong in doing so. I'm not going to bash our pick just to seem unbiased. I'm going to do research, try and understand what our coaches and GM are looking for, and then form an opinion. I don't really give a crap about Denver's draft.
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OakRaiders3828
Joined: 18 Aug 2007
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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Edit
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Last edited by OakRaiders3828 on Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:15 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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dante9876
Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Posts: 17531
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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I like the pick. A few things
Carlise is 35 years old. Stop gap at best for one more year. Good vet to help teach guys the ZBS.
NT was a need no doubt but at the same time who do you want to get on your team and learning first. A NT or LG. IMO you can plug a NT in much easier and faster than LG.
Maybe the NT's left didnt grade out as good as some of us think. Maybe Mck feel they arent worth 3 rd value and that the distance between all the NT's left isnt far apart form each other.
I still want in LB and a NT to but I do think this was a need and I do think that coaching and scheme will make a huge difference in our defense this year. |
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dante9876
Joined: 23 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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| OakRaiders3828 wrote: | | By your logic, in order to think we had a good draft, we need to also give Denver high praise? |
No thats not what Im saying either. Im saying dont say we cant go by scouts, media or other outlets while judging a pick and post examples of late round success. Then turn around and bash other teams drafts using those same methods. Unless Im to believe that it just so happens that a person studied all the prospects that or rivals have drafted. Thats all Im saying. Our draft can be good and their draft can suck |
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OakRaiders3828
Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 9153
Location: Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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| dante9876 wrote: | | OakRaiders3828 wrote: | | By your logic, in order to think we had a good draft, we need to also give Denver high praise? |
No thats not what Im saying either. Im saying dont say we cant go by scouts, media or other outlets while judging a pick and post examples of late round success. Then turn around and bash other teams drafts using those same methods. Unless Im to believe that it just so happens that a person studied all the prospects that or rivals have drafted. Thats all Im saying. Our draft can be good and their draft can suck |
I got you, that's why I edited my post.
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oakdb36
Joined: 02 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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| OakRaiders3828 wrote: | | I'm not going to bash our pick just to seem unbiased. |
Hopefully, you don't think that's what i'm doing. I'm not thrilled with this pick and just give my opinion. I'm not even bashing it, i just believe there were better players to add at this point. |
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NCOUGHMAN
Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 12586
Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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| NickButera wrote: | | big_palooka wrote: |
Stopping slurping up the media dribble as truth. |
Media dribble was clearly on my menu of draft weekend food.
-7 layer dip - Thur/Fri
-Memphis style ribs & cole slaw - Thur
-Texas Chili & corn bread- Fri
-Pulled pork, more cole slaw, fries, italian sausage hoagies, and media dribble - Sat
So now you have a menu item you need to replace on my Sat menu.
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i hate you.........for not sending me a plate or 2 or 3
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| green24 wrote: | | NCOUGHMAN >>>>>> all of you |
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OakRaiders3828
Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 9153
Location: Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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| oakdb36 wrote: | | OakRaiders3828 wrote: | | I'm not going to bash our pick just to seem unbiased. |
Hopefully, you don't think that's what i'm doing. I'm not thrilled with this pick and just give my opinion. I'm not even bashing it, i just believe there were better players to add at this point. |
Fair enough.
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