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Grade the Broncos' Draft
A
1%
 1%  [ 1 ]
B
29%
 29%  [ 19 ]
C
31%
 31%  [ 20 ]
D
21%
 21%  [ 14 ]
F
15%
 15%  [ 10 ]
Total Votes : 64

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lomaxgr


Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 21271
Location: Manchester, England
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nyko1990 wrote:
Again I don't know much about Ronnie Hillman, But I do know one thing; there was better talent available at the pick.


This about sums up how absurd the overreactions in this thread are. I don't mean to pick you out mate, but does this sentence not seem utterly ridiculous to you? You admit to not knowing much about the guy, yet you know there was better talent available ... How do you know that this guy isn't supremely talented?

I have no problem in people forming an opinion based on watching games of people (even though I dispute a lot of people who say they have), but forming an opinion on a pick without seeing a player is actually laughable.

My opinions are based on the position we have picked, because I haven't seen a single College game from 2011 (I will download games of our picks as I do every offseason).

Our 1st pick was a DT; an obvious glaring need on this Football team, so no complaints here.

Our 2nd pick was a backup QB; if our team was more rounded, I wouldn't mind this as we clearly need a young QB to groom that has the potential to start at some point. But in my opinion this team isn't well rounded enough, and I would rather have waited a couple of rounds for such a player (I hear Ryan Lindley will be around for our 4th rounder).

Our 3rd pick was a change of pace, take it to the house type RB; again this is a huge need on our team. When was the last time we had an explosive player out of the backfield? No problem with this position being addressed.

I liked the 1st trade, didn't really like the 2nd (don't see why we couldn't have obtained an extra pick/not give up our 4th) and didn't mind the trade up (value wise).
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big_palooka


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I gave the first 3 rounds a C-

Derek Wolfe - Solid rotational player. Will be good, never great at the NFL level IMO. A role player on the Dline who will get after the QB. Blue collar worker, which I love. Should help on defense early.

Brock Osweiler - Terrible pick. You pay Manning 96 million dollars to 'win now' and you take a gangly, inconsistent passer with 15 career starts? He's just a poor prospect. Trouble reading defenses pre snap. Misses a lot of throws. Footwork is a mess and he seems to shot put the ball. Throwing motion is never consistent. Maybe Manning finally clicks in his 'mentor' role where he let Sorgi and Painter down? Just don't' see a QBOTF in Osweiler. Taking him at the expense of an impact play for a 'win now' team was a big fail!

Ronnie Hillman - Didn't like the trade up. Reeked of desperation. Like they wanted LeMichael James and after he went they overreacted to get Hillman. As a player, he's lean and not very powerful in the legs. Never see him finish runs. Struggles between the tackles. He will have some electric plays in certain situations, but doesn't look like a consistent ball carrier. IMO, the Broncos could have gotten the same player in Michael Smith from Utah State day 3 and not given up picks to do it.

As I see the Broncos, they are 'win now'. You don't sign Manning and decide to rebuild and invest in the future with a QB in round 2, that was a bad pick. Better prospects at QB could be had later and still learn under Manning.

In 'win now' mode, they added the solid Derek Wolfe to help shore up the loss of Bunkley and that's was the extent of it. Would have liked to seen more attention to the Oline early to protect Manning, perhaps another rotational piece on the Dline. QB and RB this early was a reach for them. C-
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M-High Marauder


Joined: 15 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I went with a "B"

I was high on all three players before the draft, but thought that Hillman could have been gotten with the late 3rd pick or even one of the 4ths.

Trade from 1st round : I was originally going to give it a "C", because I didn't think the Broncos got enough value with the 2nd trade in the 1st, but then I realized that I wouldn't have complained if they took Wolfe at #25.

Wolfe: I know everybody went "who the well is Wolfe?". Mark my words, he will start for this team for many, many years. The only concern I have with him is his weight fluctuation. He needs to stay around 300 to be effective. If he drops down to 275-280 during the season he will wear down quick.

Osweiller: Again, I am in the minority, but this is the perfect pick for the Broncos. If Osweiller would have waited another year, he would be a top 15 pick next year. The big knock on him is his rawness. He is a perfect candidate to sit behind Manning for 2-3 years and learn.

Hillman: I like the pick, but thought that we got him too early. I think the way to go is to wait until we draft late in the round, and take him if he's there. If not go with Polk, or Miller if the is available.
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germ-x


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
In 'win now' mode, they added the solid Derek Wolfe to help shore up the loss of Bunkley and that's was the extent of it. Would have liked to seen more attention to the Oline early to protect Manning, perhaps another rotational piece on the Dline. QB and RB this early was a reach for them. C-


I didn't like the Hillman pick either, but he is going to be productive in Denver and i don't think anyone can deny that. Like Wolfe, he helps this team immediately, just not in the typical RB role everyone thought would be targeted.
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JerseysFinest27


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some of the comments made in this thread are completely outlandish and utterly insane. I guarantee half of the people in here have ever seen Wolfe or Hillman actually play in a game, not just watch youtube highlights.

From what I have seen though, Wolfe is a good player and fits a need. I believe his biggest impact will be on 3rd down. Think about having Doom, Wolfe, Ayers, and Von essentially running "NASCAR" at the quarterback. Thats going to be my new terminology for our 3rd down group. I want them to think its like NASCAR and just full-steam ahead at the QB.

Sure, Wolfe is not as hyped up as Worthy, Thompson, or Still, but that doesnt mean hes not a high-2nd round player. He got a 2nd round grade from the draft committee. Also, Hillman is not as hyped up as James, Pead, or Turbin (around here), the guy still was very productive in college. He clearly has a little wiggle to him and can bring it to the house any play.

Im not ready to "Grade" our picks just yet. I want to see what EXF do today.

One thing I do know for certain, Im hoping we can address some of the following positions today:
-DT
-CB
-WR/PR/KR
-Interior OL
-DE
-Goal-line RB
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JerseysFinest27 wrote:
Some of the comments made in this thread are completely outlandish and utterly insane. I guarantee half of the people in here have ever seen Wolfe or Hillman actually play in a game, not just watch youtube highlights.

From what I have seen though, Wolfe is a good player and fits a need. I believe his biggest impact will be on 3rd down. Think about having Doom, Wolfe, Ayers, and Von essentially running "NASCAR" at the quarterback. Thats going to be my new terminology for our 3rd down group. I want them to think its like NASCAR and just full-steam ahead at the QB.

Sure, Wolfe is not as hyped up as Worthy, Thompson, or Still, but that doesnt mean hes not a high-2nd round player. He got a 2nd round grade from the draft committee. Also, Hillman is not as hyped up as James, Pead, or Turbin (around here), the guy still was very productive in college. He clearly has a little wiggle to him and can bring it to the house any play.

Im not ready to "Grade" our picks just yet. I want to see what EXF do today.

One thing I do know for certain, Im hoping we can address some of the following positions today:
-DT
-CB
-WR/PR/KR
-Interior OL
-DE
-Goal-line RB


I've seen a lot of Hillman. He's nothing special at this level. He produced In a poor conference. He will have his moments, but he's Jerious Norwood in the NFL. He's not Sproles or James. Same kind of back the Raiders drafted in Taiwan Jones.
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broncosfan07


Joined: 21 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
JerseysFinest27 wrote:
Some of the comments made in this thread are completely outlandish and utterly insane. I guarantee half of the people in here have ever seen Wolfe or Hillman actually play in a game, not just watch youtube highlights.

From what I have seen though, Wolfe is a good player and fits a need. I believe his biggest impact will be on 3rd down. Think about having Doom, Wolfe, Ayers, and Von essentially running "NASCAR" at the quarterback. Thats going to be my new terminology for our 3rd down group. I want them to think its like NASCAR and just full-steam ahead at the QB.

Sure, Wolfe is not as hyped up as Worthy, Thompson, or Still, but that doesnt mean hes not a high-2nd round player. He got a 2nd round grade from the draft committee. Also, Hillman is not as hyped up as James, Pead, or Turbin (around here), the guy still was very productive in college. He clearly has a little wiggle to him and can bring it to the house any play.

Im not ready to "Grade" our picks just yet. I want to see what EXF do today.

One thing I do know for certain, Im hoping we can address some of the following positions today:
-DT
-CB
-WR/PR/KR
-Interior OL
-DE
-Goal-line RB


I've seen a lot of Hillman. He's nothing special at this level. He produced In a poor conference. He will have his moments, but he's Jerious Norwood in the NFL. He's not Sproles or James. Same kind of back the Raiders drafted in Taiwan Jones.
What? Jones did nothing in college he was drafted because he ran fast that was it. So if you produce in a small conference your no good? Marshall Faulk ring a bell? How about Chris Johnson? Steve Smith? Last time I checked Utah played in that same conference before last year so what's your draft pick? Nothing special, I seriously doubt it.
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JerseysFinest27


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A quick video about the 3 players the Broncos drafted:

http://www.denverbroncos.com/multimedia/videos/True-to-the-Board/a561039e-3858-489c-a91f-f53ebb91184b

Quote from John Fox about RB Ronnie Hillman:
Quote:
Hes that dynamic. Kind of a Spoles-like. Very Explosive. That dynamic when you hand it to him, check down to him, or even long passes to him. So hes a pretty good all-around back.


No offense BP, but these guys watch more film than everyone on this forum combined. I trust their opinion of anyone else on this board. Also, John Fox does pretty well with his RB choices, lets not forget.
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elliot878


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

broncos67 wrote:
I think it's funny how people dog a pick because other guys are falling. If some of the RBs are falling, don't you think that means there's a good chance there's something big we don't know about them. Just because we liked them in our mocks doesn't mean the FO does...

Not to mention, with some of the picks made already, who's to say that tehe guys we got would have been around later. Eagles took Foles, so they were obviously in the market for a QB...who knows, they may have taken Osweiler. Hillman could easily have been taken too, we just don't know.



Agree with all this. Yano we do a real lot around here and put in a ton of effort as a forum to evaluate and come up with scenarios each year, and every year its the same thing on draft weekend - a whole lot of belly aching because the Broncos front office isn't picking guys that we had collectively keyed in on. Even with all our hard work, all our mock drafts, prospect evaluations, scouting reports - we barely scratch the surface compared to EXF and the rest of the Broncos scouting department.

I'm over bellyaching about the draft on draft weekend, the only thing you can legitimately get upset about is getting ripped in trades. You can't complain about the players we traded up/back for because you really can't say "oh they would have been there" - NONE of us know that.

Derek Wolfe - Right after the college season ended I said that if Derek Wolfe had a good offseason he may be the guy to make a JJ Watt type rise. I still feel he is a poor man's JJ Watt. He's not quite the athletic/physical freak JJ Watt is, but they play with the same tenacity and effort level. Wolfe is relentless getting up field and rushing the passer. For those saying "we could have had him in the 3rd/4th terrible pick" - you're most likely dead wrong. NFL draft advisory board told Wolfe his name would likely be called in the late first or early second round. I think Wolfe is going to become a fan favorite in Denver.
Grade: B

Brock Osweiller - I knew this pick was coming, it had become quite obvious we'd draft a QB to groom under Peyton who had actual talent. I listened to Bill Polian talk on ESPN radio the day Peyton Manning got released by the Colts and he basically said that it was all his fault because he never bothered to draft anyone with talent for Peyton to help groom - and had he done that the Colts wouldn't have lost so many games this year and gotten the number one pick. Osweiller will be the proof of whether or not Manning can mentor - as he's the only player with an ounce of talent that has ever played behind Manning. I listened to some evaluators on the radio who said in almost any other year Osweiller graded out to an early first rounder. Continued to say that if Osweiller were in last years draft he would have been taken top 10, over Gabbert and Ponder. With that being said maybe Osweiller was the BPA on EXF's board. This pick could be a steal. So what if it doesn't provide immediate impact - think about this: we (hopefully) wont have to wait 15 years to find our next franchise QB after Manning retires, we can seamlessly transition at the QB position. I cannot tell you how good that makes me feel.
Grade: B

Ronnie Hillman - I don't like the trade up one bit. This running back class is all kinds of stacked and I don't feel a need to move up when a position is this good in a draft. As for Hillman, I like him and feel he's the type of runner this team needs. There is no home run hitter on the Broncos depth chart at RB. No guy who can take a handoff or catch a pass and have the legs to take it in from anywhere. That gives this offense a new dimension, and a needed one. As far as Lamar Miller being on the board - there's gotta be red flags because EVERYONE skipped on the guy, not just us.
Grade: C+ (Not based on the player but on trading way up in an unbelievable class at the position).
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bwall


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think a lot of you are being a little over-critical of our picks... yes, they are not perfect, but who's to say those three players won't make good pro's? How many of you were upset last year when we took Von over Dareus? What about Franklin? As I remember, he was not the top tackle on most of our boards, and many of us did not see tackle as a pressing need...

That said, I would have been happier getting Brock in the 3rd value wise- I don't like that we spent a second on a player who won't see the field for a while (especially because we are in "win now" mode) BUT IF he becomes the franchise QB in the future, he will be a great pick (and who's to say he won't? I assume that Elway must really think he can be if he drafted him so high). Do you think Green Bay fans were happy spending a first on Rodgers when they had Farve still going strong? I'm not saying it will work out THAT well, but with three years of grooming from two of the top 5 QBs of all time, who's to say he can't be a star down the line?

As for Wolfe, like many of you, I was looking for us to draft Worthy, Still, or Reyes (or someone like Curry or J. Jenkins) ahead of him, but he very well could be the most consistent player, and best pass rusher of the bunch. 9.5 sacks for a DT??? Not too shabby if you ask me...

And then there's Hillman. I myself would have LOVED Lamar Miller instead, as he seems like a more complete back, but I am not going to complain if Hillman becomes a Sproles-type player. I feel like we have needed a dynamic back who can make people miss and turn on the burners for a while. I am going to reserve my judgement on this pick until I see him play. Too bad LaMichael James wasn't available there...


EDIT: at least we didn't reach like the Seahawks did in taking Irvin...

On a side note... the Chargers draft makes me cranky!
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Nyko1990


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lomaxgr wrote:
Nyko1990 wrote:
Again I don't know much about Ronnie Hillman, But I do know one thing; there was better talent available at the pick.


This about sums up how absurd the overreactions in this thread are. I don't mean to pick you out mate, but does this sentence not seem utterly ridiculous to you? You admit to not knowing much about the guy, yet you know there was better talent available ... How do you know that this guy isn't supremely talented?

I have no problem in people forming an opinion based on watching games of people (even though I dispute a lot of people who say they have), but forming an opinion on a pick without seeing a player is actually laughable.

My opinions are based on the position we have picked, because I haven't seen a single College game from 2011 (I will download games of our picks as I do every offseason).

Our 1st pick was a DT; an obvious glaring need on this Football team, so no complaints here.

Our 2nd pick was a backup QB; if our team was more rounded, I wouldn't mind this as we clearly need a young QB to groom that has the potential to start at some point. But in my opinion this team isn't well rounded enough, and I would rather have waited a couple of rounds for such a player (I hear Ryan Lindley will be around for our 4th rounder).

Our 3rd pick was a change of pace, take it to the house type RB; again this is a huge need on our team. When was the last time we had an explosive player out of the backfield? No problem with this position being addressed.

I liked the 1st trade, didn't really like the 2nd (don't see why we couldn't have obtained an extra pick/not give up our 4th) and didn't mind the trade up (value wise).


Not knowing much about someone does not mean that I don't know there was better talent available. I've read some scouting reports and i've read some of the more informed opinions of this thread.

There's no way around it there was simply better talent to be had at, at the pick. I know BP trolls alot, but he also makes solid statements alot as well. We did exactly as he said, we didn't get james and we panicked to trade up for our next best RB, not our next best person on our BB. Hell you still had B Thompson, Jayron Hosley, Sanu, Jamell Fleming, and Lamar Miller still available after the pick. Thats not even mentioned the people who haven't been drafted yet (outside of Miller.) If Hillman had stellar talent, he would've been scouted more highly; and those who did scout him would've given him better grades.

EXF, IMO; is solely drafting for need and not BPA. And I personally think they're making the wrong picks. And i'm waiting for someone to say "that's why they're where they are and that's where you are." Freedom of speech, my own opinion.
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

broncosfan07 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
JerseysFinest27 wrote:
Some of the comments made in this thread are completely outlandish and utterly insane. I guarantee half of the people in here have ever seen Wolfe or Hillman actually play in a game, not just watch youtube highlights.

From what I have seen though, Wolfe is a good player and fits a need. I believe his biggest impact will be on 3rd down. Think about having Doom, Wolfe, Ayers, and Von essentially running "NASCAR" at the quarterback. Thats going to be my new terminology for our 3rd down group. I want them to think its like NASCAR and just full-steam ahead at the QB.

Sure, Wolfe is not as hyped up as Worthy, Thompson, or Still, but that doesnt mean hes not a high-2nd round player. He got a 2nd round grade from the draft committee. Also, Hillman is not as hyped up as James, Pead, or Turbin (around here), the guy still was very productive in college. He clearly has a little wiggle to him and can bring it to the house any play.

Im not ready to "Grade" our picks just yet. I want to see what EXF do today.

One thing I do know for certain, Im hoping we can address some of the following positions today:
-DT
-CB
-WR/PR/KR
-Interior OL
-DE
-Goal-line RB


I've seen a lot of Hillman. He's nothing special at this level. He produced In a poor conference. He will have his moments, but he's Jerious Norwood in the NFL. He's not Sproles or James. Same kind of back the Raiders drafted in Taiwan Jones.
What? Jones did nothing in college he was drafted because he ran fast that was it. So if you produce in a small conference your no good? Marshall Faulk ring a bell? How about Chris Johnson? Steve Smith? Last time I checked Utah played in that same conference before last year so what's your draft pick? Nothing special, I seriously doubt it.


I'm just stating ripping it up in a poor conference isn't that impressive. Doesn't mean small school back can't be good NFL players. Just the 'post the stats and say he's awesome crowd' need to slow down a bit.

As for Jones, he tore up the Big Sky conference. He was a first team All-American and carried E.Washington to a conference champ game. At least pretend to know what you are talking about before just saying 'he did nothing in college'.

Hillman is the same type of lean runner with quickness and wiggle. They are very similar except Jones is a little bigger. But he had more to his game than speed. His broken foot kept him under the radar leading up the draft.
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big_palooka


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JerseysFinest27 wrote:
A quick video about the 3 players the Broncos drafted:

http://www.denverbroncos.com/multimedia/videos/True-to-the-Board/a561039e-3858-489c-a91f-f53ebb91184b

Quote from John Fox about RB Ronnie Hillman:
Quote:
Hes that dynamic. Kind of a Spoles-like. Very Explosive. That dynamic when you hand it to him, check down to him, or even long passes to him. So hes a pretty good all-around back.


No offense BP, but these guys watch more film than everyone on this forum combined. I trust their opinion of anyone else on this board. Also, John Fox does pretty well with his RB choices, lets not forget.


None taken. I always trust the eyes in the organization over anyone else's. Same with the Raiders pick. Never wowed me at Utah, but they see him as the best ZBS guard in the draft. Can't argue what they see even though I see a Moron with a mohawk who is 25 Laughing Laughing
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Winder23


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Wolfe pick and the Hillman pick are all about production. They both produced big time in smaller conferences. I must admit I didn't look at either prospect that much, but they both show real well in the limited video I could find.

Hillman's short yet thick stature is nice. He also has blazing speed and great vision. Has the potential to be very dangerous in this offense. Hillman will also be able to return kicks. This pick has the chance to be a great one. Everyone on the forum wanted a playmaker on offense, so here you go.

Wolfe was all over various draft boards. Anywhere from the first to fourth rounds as I have come to find out. This was Fox and Del Rio getting a targeted player to fortify our weakest position. The only concern I would have is he didn't play against top competition on a weekly basis. That being said, he did dominate the competition he faced.

Now for Osweiler. On one hand the pick could have been used for a greater need. On the other hand if Peyton Manning goes down this year or next, we would have had Hanie and Potsy Webber behind him. That is a scary proposition. John Elway said he didn't have a plan B, but this is it. Osweiler has alot of tools to be good. The entire NFL is in win now mode. If not, people lose their jobs. Doesn't mean we can't take a guy to be developed. I seriously doubt the #57 pick in the draft is going to detemine our overall fate for the next three years. If we miss the playoffs or lose early in the playoffs the 57th pick will have had little to no effect on that outcome. Do I like it, no. Do I hate it, no.

The bottom line is the Broncos have a board and they are sticking to it. I am excited to see what 101, 108 and 137 bring. Enjoy the last day of the draft gents.
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broncospride95


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
JerseysFinest27 wrote:
A quick video about the 3 players the Broncos drafted:

http://www.denverbroncos.com/multimedia/videos/True-to-the-Board/a561039e-3858-489c-a91f-f53ebb91184b

Quote from John Fox about RB Ronnie Hillman:
Quote:
Hes that dynamic. Kind of a Spoles-like. Very Explosive. That dynamic when you hand it to him, check down to him, or even long passes to him. So hes a pretty good all-around back.


No offense BP, but these guys watch more film than everyone on this forum combined. I trust their opinion of anyone else on this board. Also, John Fox does pretty well with his RB choices, lets not forget.


None taken. I always trust the eyes in the organization over anyone else's. Same with the Raiders pick. Never wowed me at Utah, but they see him as the best ZBS guard in the draft. Can't argue what they see even though I see a Moron with a mohawk who is 25 Laughing Laughing

Agreed 100%. I trust the FO to make good decisions. Even the Raiders now that McKenzie is there. I think the Raiders are turning their franchise around the right way.
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