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indifference
Joined: 08 Nov 2010
Posts: 3566
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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 Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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| candyman93 wrote: | | jrry32 wrote: | | PowerElite wrote: | | Cut on the tape, poor separation... |
Actually, not at all true but your opinion on him probably comes from a few youtube clips. |
You probably do the same thing  |
Considering he is a South Carolina fan, I'm pretty sure he knows more about their players than most casual fans.
And to answer the question, yeah he has deceptive speed. He ran by Dennard many times in that bowl game. Granted, Dennard isn't a blazer himself he is still an agile quick twitch CB. Now, if you put the Florida tape on from a year prior when Jenkins blanketed him, its a different story. Too bad Jenkins is an idiot b/c he'd be a top 10 pick had he come out Florida. |
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nugpimpen
Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 28488
Location: 10 Miles South of Cleveland
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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| indifference wrote: | | candyman93 wrote: | | jrry32 wrote: | | PowerElite wrote: | | Cut on the tape, poor separation... |
Actually, not at all true but your opinion on him probably comes from a few youtube clips. |
You probably do the same thing |
Considering he is a South Carolina fan, I'm pretty sure he knows more about their players than most casual fans.
And to answer the question, yeah he has deceptive speed. He ran by Dennard many times in that bowl game. Granted, Dennard isn't a blazer himself he is still an agile quick twitch CB. Now, if you put the Florida tape on from a year prior when Jenkins blanketed him, its a different story. Too bad Jenkins is an idiot b/c he'd be a top 10 pick had he come out Florida. |
Which makes him more likely to wear his homer shades. 
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Gmen
Joined: 20 Jul 2007
Posts: 17498
Location: Myyyyy precioussss
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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His playing weight was too high, and the tape shows he couldn't separate as a result. But he looked good running at 216. Whoever drafts him will need to make sure he stays at that weight.
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jrry32
Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 69131
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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| nugpimpen wrote: | | indifference wrote: | | candyman93 wrote: | | jrry32 wrote: | | PowerElite wrote: | | Cut on the tape, poor separation... |
Actually, not at all true but your opinion on him probably comes from a few youtube clips. |
You probably do the same thing |
Considering he is a South Carolina fan, I'm pretty sure he knows more about their players than most casual fans.
And to answer the question, yeah he has deceptive speed. He ran by Dennard many times in that bowl game. Granted, Dennard isn't a blazer himself he is still an agile quick twitch CB. Now, if you put the Florida tape on from a year prior when Jenkins blanketed him, its a different story. Too bad Jenkins is an idiot b/c he'd be a top 10 pick had he come out Florida. |
Which makes him more likely to wear his homer shades. |
Some of us are lucky enough to be able to avoid them. I evaluate SC players very fairly if you read all my evaluations. I am just really high on Alshon because I've seen what he can do at the top of his game.
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pnies20
Joined: 19 Dec 2007
Posts: 10214
Location: Nashville through Erie, PA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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Is his deep speed underrated? No because he has trouble gaining separation.
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Inspector71
Joined: 19 Jan 2012
Posts: 59
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for taking the time to post this jrry32.
It pretty much verifies what I have noticed when watching him. He seems to seperate better when he runs a deeper pattern.
I really like him as a Propsepct and I will not be surprised if he ends up being the best WR in this class.
Would look good in Brown and Orange. |
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mitchconnor
Joined: 23 Dec 2005
Posts: 1162
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:20 am Post subject: |
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This makes sense to me.
I think he's the best deep threat in the draft, and could very well be the best overall wr in the class. |
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McMorrow_922
Joined: 21 Dec 2011
Posts: 2532
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:29 am Post subject: |
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Best areciever in the draft. Will be a steal in the 2nd.
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Chrissooner49er
Joined: 03 Feb 2005
Posts: 5085
Location: Tulsa, OK
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:34 am Post subject: |
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Alshon's supposed speed did not show up this season due to playing at a much higher weight for a WR (at least 15-20 lb difference). Now why didn't he run at the Combine if his weight was down already? RED FLAG. Instead, he waits until his pro day and suddenly it's a pretty fast time. SUSPECT.
He will have to prove he can stay at this 'streamlined' weight and not lapse into old habits. Otherwise, his career will go the same way as others before him...failure.
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Speedyg
Joined: 10 Jan 2011
Posts: 725
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:51 am Post subject: Re: Is Alshon Jeffery's deep speed underrated? |
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| jrry32 wrote: | Jeffery's 40 yard dash at his Pro Day went like this:
10 yard split - 1.64
20 yard split - 2.63
40 yard split - 4.48
10 to 20 yards - 0.99 seconds
20 to 40 yards - 1.85 seconds
10 to 40 yards - 2.84 seconds
I know you're wondering what my point is here. Look at Alshon's 10 yard split, it's VERY slow for a WR. Which is why I've made the point again and again that he doesn't possess great initial burst. He builds up speed. For a smaller WR, this would be an issue but on the vast majority of the routes that need burst, Alshon's big body, physicality and great hands will allow him to make the catch even with a defender on him.
Here's where it gets very interesting. Some have wondered how Alshon is such an effective intermediate to deep threat despite not looking fast on tape. I've always said that he has deceptive deep speed due to his long strides and I'm going to attempt to confirm that.
Julio Jones:
10 yard split - 1.50
20 yard split - 2.47
40 yard split - 4.34
10 to 20 yards - 0.97 seconds
20 to 40 yards - 1.87 seconds
10 to 40 yards - 2.84 seconds
Percy Harvin:
10 yard split - 1.47
20 yard split - 2.51
40 yard split - 4.39
10 to 20 yards - 1.04 seconds
20 to 40 yards - 1.88 seconds
10 to 40 yards - 2.92 seconds
DeSean Jackson:
10 yard split - 1.53
20 yard split - 2.52
40 yard split - 4.35
10 to 20 yards - 0.99 seconds
20 to 40 yards - 1.83 seconds
10 to 40 yards - 2.82 seconds
What I'm attempting to show here is that once Alshon is up to speed, surprisingly, he's actually quite fast. He takes time to build up to speed but from the 10 yard mark to the finish, he was faster than Percy Harvin, tied with Julio Jones and only .02 seconds slower than DeSean Jackson.
Here are some similarly sized WRs with similar 40s(4.46 to 4.51) to show that this isn't a normal thing for big WRs:
Hakeem Nicks:
10 yard split - 1.52
20 yard split - 2.60
40 yard split - 4.51
10 to 20 yards - 1.08 seconds
20 to 40 yards - 1.91 seconds
10 to 40 yards - 2.99 seconds
Kenny Britt:
10 yard split - 1.56
20 yard split - 2.62
40 yard split - 4.50
10 to 20 yards - 1.06 seconds
20 to 40 yards - 1.88 seconds
10 to 40 yards - 2.94 seconds
Carlton Mitchell:
10 yard split - 1.52
20 yard split - 2.60
40 yard split - 4.46
10 to 20 yards - 1.08 seconds
20 to 40 yards - 1.86 seconds
10 to 40 yards - 2.94 seconds
AJ Green:
10 yard split - 1.55
20 yard split - 2.53
40 yard split - 4.48
10 to 20 yards - 0.98 seconds
20 to 40 yards - 1.95 seconds
10 to 40 yards - 2.93 seconds
Jonathan Baldwin:
10 yard split - 1.58
20 yard split - 2.57
40 yard split - 4.49
10 to 20 yards - 0.99 seconds
20 to 40 yards - 1.92 seconds
10 to 40 yards - 2.91 seconds
Limas Sweed:
10 yard split - 1.54
20 yard split - 2.62
40 yard split - 4.48
10 to 20 yards - 1.08 seconds
20 to 40 yards - 1.86 seconds
10 to 40 yards - 2.94 seconds
Justin Blackmon:
10 yard split - 1.53
20 yard split - 2.60
40 yard split - 4.46
10 to 20 yards - 1.07 seconds
20 to 40 yards - 1.86 seconds
10 to 40 yards - 2.93 seconds
What am I saying? Alshon doesn't have burst but he has great build up speed. Those saying he's possession WR and chain mover are pretty much stating the opposite of what his strengths are. His speed translates to attacking the intermediate and deep areas of a defense because once he reaches his top end speed, he's fast. |
Out of curiosity, do you have Matt Jones' comparative times to Alshon? |
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TheVillain112
Joined: 19 Feb 2010
Posts: 21750
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:57 am Post subject: Re: Is Alshon Jeffery's deep speed underrated? |
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| jrry32 wrote: | Jeffery's 40 yard dash at his Pro Day went like this:
10 yard split - 1.64
20 yard split - 2.63
40 yard split - 4.48
10 to 20 yards - 0.99 seconds
20 to 40 yards - 1.85 seconds
10 to 40 yards - 2.84 seconds
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Chris Henry when he came out of WVU:
10 Yard split: 1.64 seconds
20 Yard split: 2.68 seconds
40 Yard split: 4.50 seconds
10 to 20 yards - 1.04 seconds
20 to 40 yards - 1.82 seconds
10 to 40 yards - 2.86 seconds
If the numbers I got for Henry are accurate, he's pretty close to Jeffery. And Chris Henry didn't have any issues running by DB's in the NFL... |
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mikeyfarley
Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Posts: 4469
Location: floride
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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| indifference wrote: | | candyman93 wrote: | | jrry32 wrote: | | PowerElite wrote: | | Cut on the tape, poor separation... |
Actually, not at all true but your opinion on him probably comes from a few youtube clips. |
You probably do the same thing |
Considering he is a South Carolina fan, I'm pretty sure he knows more about their players than most casual fans.
And to answer the question, yeah he has deceptive speed. He ran by Dennard many times in that bowl game. Granted, Dennard isn't a blazer himself he is still an agile quick twitch CB. Now, if you put the Florida tape on from a year prior when Jenkins blanketed him, its a different story. Too bad Jenkins is an idiot b/c he'd be a top 10 pick had he come out Florida. |
You're making it out like Jeffery did nothing in that game. He didn't burn Jenkins deep for any huge gains or TDs, but he was productive.
"Alshon Jeffery, the SEC's leading receiver, came up with several key third-down receptions among his six catches for 53 yards."
http://espn.go.com/ncf/recap?gameId=303170057
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mikeyfarley
Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Posts: 4469
Location: floride
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:59 pm Post subject: Re: Is Alshon Jeffery's deep speed underrated? |
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| Speedyg wrote: | | jrry32 wrote: | Jeffery's 40 yard dash at his Pro Day went like this:
10 yard split - 1.64
20 yard split - 2.63
40 yard split - 4.48
10 to 20 yards - 0.99 seconds
20 to 40 yards - 1.85 seconds
10 to 40 yards - 2.84 seconds
I know you're wondering what my point is here. Look at Alshon's 10 yard split, it's VERY slow for a WR. Which is why I've made the point again and again that he doesn't possess great initial burst. He builds up speed. For a smaller WR, this would be an issue but on the vast majority of the routes that need burst, Alshon's big body, physicality and great hands will allow him to make the catch even with a defender on him.
Here's where it gets very interesting. Some have wondered how Alshon is such an effective intermediate to deep threat despite not looking fast on tape. I've always said that he has deceptive deep speed due to his long strides and I'm going to attempt to confirm that.
Julio Jones:
10 yard split - 1.50
20 yard split - 2.47
40 yard split - 4.34
10 to 20 yards - 0.97 seconds
20 to 40 yards - 1.87 seconds
10 to 40 yards - 2.84 seconds
Percy Harvin:
10 yard split - 1.47
20 yard split - 2.51
40 yard split - 4.39
10 to 20 yards - 1.04 seconds
20 to 40 yards - 1.88 seconds
10 to 40 yards - 2.92 seconds
DeSean Jackson:
10 yard split - 1.53
20 yard split - 2.52
40 yard split - 4.35
10 to 20 yards - 0.99 seconds
20 to 40 yards - 1.83 seconds
10 to 40 yards - 2.82 seconds
What I'm attempting to show here is that once Alshon is up to speed, surprisingly, he's actually quite fast. He takes time to build up to speed but from the 10 yard mark to the finish, he was faster than Percy Harvin, tied with Julio Jones and only .02 seconds slower than DeSean Jackson.
Here are some similarly sized WRs with similar 40s(4.46 to 4.51) to show that this isn't a normal thing for big WRs:
Hakeem Nicks:
10 yard split - 1.52
20 yard split - 2.60
40 yard split - 4.51
10 to 20 yards - 1.08 seconds
20 to 40 yards - 1.91 seconds
10 to 40 yards - 2.99 seconds
Kenny Britt:
10 yard split - 1.56
20 yard split - 2.62
40 yard split - 4.50
10 to 20 yards - 1.06 seconds
20 to 40 yards - 1.88 seconds
10 to 40 yards - 2.94 seconds
Carlton Mitchell:
10 yard split - 1.52
20 yard split - 2.60
40 yard split - 4.46
10 to 20 yards - 1.08 seconds
20 to 40 yards - 1.86 seconds
10 to 40 yards - 2.94 seconds
AJ Green:
10 yard split - 1.55
20 yard split - 2.53
40 yard split - 4.48
10 to 20 yards - 0.98 seconds
20 to 40 yards - 1.95 seconds
10 to 40 yards - 2.93 seconds
Jonathan Baldwin:
10 yard split - 1.58
20 yard split - 2.57
40 yard split - 4.49
10 to 20 yards - 0.99 seconds
20 to 40 yards - 1.92 seconds
10 to 40 yards - 2.91 seconds
Limas Sweed:
10 yard split - 1.54
20 yard split - 2.62
40 yard split - 4.48
10 to 20 yards - 1.08 seconds
20 to 40 yards - 1.86 seconds
10 to 40 yards - 2.94 seconds
Justin Blackmon:
10 yard split - 1.53
20 yard split - 2.60
40 yard split - 4.46
10 to 20 yards - 1.07 seconds
20 to 40 yards - 1.86 seconds
10 to 40 yards - 2.93 seconds
What am I saying? Alshon doesn't have burst but he has great build up speed. Those saying he's possession WR and chain mover are pretty much stating the opposite of what his strengths are. His speed translates to attacking the intermediate and deep areas of a defense because once he reaches his top end speed, he's fast. |
Out of curiosity, do you have Matt Jones' comparative times to Alshon? |
Matt Jones had a 1.55 10 yard split, 2.54 20 yd, and 4.37 40 yd
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WhackyPlague
Joined: 25 May 2008
Posts: 5071
Location: Orlando, FL
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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I'm wary of trying to make this kind of analysis based off of a Pro Day time, which are notoriously unreliable.
That said... 216 seems like a much better weight for him. My opinion of Jeffrey has improved a bit, but I don't see any reason to rank him higher than the 3rd or 4th WR in this draft (probably a safer pick than Hill, but less potential). |
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InmanRoshi
Joined: 13 Apr 2011
Posts: 65
Location: United States
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:34 pm Post subject: Re: Is Alshon Jeffery's deep speed underrated? |
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| Speedyg wrote: |
Out of curiosity, do you have Matt Jones' comparative times to Alshon? |
Or Limas Sweeds. |
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