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Why a DE in the 1st round?
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Romotastic


Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 184
Location: South Brunswick, New Jersey
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i think we are all hung up on the fact that our first round pick wont fill all the needs that we have....or we think we have.

some people want o-line, some d-line, some secondary.
it is difficult to pinpoint which need to focus on more. all we can do now is just guess and make a plethora of mock drafts to make the time go by until the draft.
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roysmyboy31


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Joined: 02 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We have a bunch of average players at the position. As others have said, the impact of a top 3-4 DE has a big effect on a defense and those positive effects can often be seen trickling into other areas of the defense. Having a big guy up front that can collapse the pocket consistently makes everyone else's job easier and causes havoc in the backfield for opponents. We don't have that kind of guy now. Ratliff used to be that kind of guy, but he seems worn down now from overuse at the NT spot. A new DE could be a big help and I see more value there than at the 3-4 OLB or DB position as it stands.
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waremd


Joined: 27 Jan 2012
Posts: 933
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The difference between a first to second round DE/DT is vast. There is reason over the past five years DEs have been near the top position taken in the first round. Dallas needs another threat because teams always focus on Ware. We need solid DEs that can consistantly get into the backfield and disrupt the play as well as play the run.
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DaBoys


Joined: 18 Feb 2005
Posts: 3020
Location: Lubbock Texas
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think DE/DT/NT has to be the pick at 14.

I believe DeCastro isn't an option because 1. he may not even be there. 2. we signed two guys to play Guard to long deals in the off season. (which sucks imo) I think the likelihood of us drafting a WR is the same as us drafting an OT. It isn't going to happen. We just drafted both those positions the last two years. I don't see saftey happening because they just signed Sensabaugh to a long deal and Pool in FA who will start this coming year. I think Jerry wants someone who will start day one, with the 14th pick. I think OLB is out of the question as well, because I don't think the team is ready to give up on Spencer and of course Ware is the other. I also don't think the Dallas organization is as disappointed in Spencer as we are. ILB is out too. Not only is there just one ILB who is potentially worthy of a #14 overall pick but dallas has drafted that position high the past two years and have a FA aquisition that they seem proud of. I think Dallas gets a pass rusher at some point, but I believe they feel set with their starters and thus won't go LB in the first. I don't think the team is moving Rat to 3-4 DE. We talk about it every offseason, and I bet we will be doing the same thing next offseason. The thing is we run a 4-3 alot of the time. We aren't a typical 3-4 base defense. We move around alot, and on passing downs we almost always rush Ware, so teams approach us like a 4-3 defense anyway. We have Ratliff who is our NT. Love it or hate it. It is what it is.

So when you think about it, 3-4 DE, 4-3 DT, and Center are our only weaknesses on our entire team that wasn't in some way, no matter how small, addressed already, including CB. We won't draft Center at number 14 soooo.....

I think Brockers would be a big body that could take a double team or two away from D.Ware and Spencer. I think F. Cox is a smart, experienced, relentless, disruptive force, that would give us something we have never seen from out 3-4 DEs. I understand why 3-4 DE isn't appreciated around here. It's because we have had nothing to appreciate. Watching the Giants and 49ers game last year, I was just blown away with how much impact number #94 for the 49ers had on that game. I often mistook him for the OLB because he was taking over the game. We have nothing like him at DE. You think Ware is a force now? line him up next to Justin Smith.... then watch. You think Spencer is always a tad late? I bet JJ Watt could get him there on time. I really feel that Cox or Brockers could be that guy. More Cox than Brockers, but I'd be happy with either one. If we don't go DE/DT at 14 then I want to trade back. or get Decastro Pray
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Matts4313 wrote:
I agree with daboys, some of you might be insane.

The_Slamman wrote:
Daboys is right.

Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
BTW, DaBoys wins this thread.
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Tyshine


Joined: 31 Dec 2010
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Location: Daegu, Korea
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The pressure comes mainly from one source(Ware) making the defense too one dimensional. I would also like a stud NT, but I don't think Poe or any other first rounder has shown they can be that guy. Maybe the scouting department feels different. I would be very exicted if we spent our first two picks on DL. We have spent too many years with a mediocre DL, and I think the team realizes it.
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htfryar


Joined: 14 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tony7188 wrote:
Way to take my thread and try to reword it so it doesn't sound the same... Smh


As other have pointed out, I was focusing on the DE position as a whole. I was not just thinking about Cox, like you appeared to be. To be completely honest, I didn't even read your thread because the title made it sound as if it was all about Cox and that's just not what I am after.
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star20


Joined: 26 Feb 2010
Posts: 476
Location: Jacksonville, FL
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaBoys wrote:
I think DE/DT/NT has to be the pick at 14.

I believe DeCastro isn't an option because 1. he may not even be there. 2. we signed two guys to play Guard to long deals in the off season. (which sucks imo) I think the likelihood of us drafting a WR is the same as us drafting an OT. It isn't going to happen. We just drafted both those positions the last two years. I don't see saftey happening because they just signed Sensabaugh to a long deal and Pool in FA who will start this coming year. I think Jerry wants someone who will start day one, with the 14th pick. I think OLB is out of the question as well, because I don't think the team is ready to give up on Spencer and of course Ware is the other. I also don't think the Dallas organization is as disappointed in Spencer as we are. ILB is out too. Not only is there just one ILB who is potentially worthy of a #14 overall pick but dallas has drafted that position high the past two years and have a FA aquisition that they seem proud of. I think Dallas gets a pass rusher at some point, but I believe they feel set with their starters and thus won't go LB in the first. I don't think the team is moving Rat to 3-4 DE. We talk about it every offseason, and I bet we will be doing the same thing next offseason. The thing is we run a 4-3 alot of the time. We aren't a typical 3-4 base defense. We move around alot, and on passing downs we almost always rush Ware, so teams approach us like a 4-3 defense anyway. We have Ratliff who is our NT. Love it or hate it. It is what it is.

So when you think about it, 3-4 DE, 4-3 DT, and Center are our only weaknesses on our entire team that wasn't in some way, no matter how small, addressed already, including CB. We won't draft Center at number 14 soooo.....

I think Brockers would be a big body that could take a double team or two away from D.Ware and Spencer. I think F. Cox is a smart, experienced, relentless, disruptive force, that would give us something we have never seen from out 3-4 DEs. I understand why 3-4 DE isn't appreciated around here. It's because we have had nothing to appreciate. Watching the Giants and 49ers game last year, I was just blown away with how much impact number #94 for the 49ers had on that game. I often mistook him for the OLB because he was taking over the game. We have nothing like him at DE. You think Ware is a force now? line him up next to Justin Smith.... then watch. You think Spencer is always a tad late? I bet JJ Watt could get him there on time. I really feel that Cox or Brockers could be that guy. More Cox than Brockers, but I'd be happy with either one. If we don't go DE/DT at 14 then I want to trade back. or get Decastro Pray
DeCastro can quite easily be up there at 14 because that is about the position people take starting gaurd / centers. If Cox can be the pass rusher they are raving him to be he would make a huge difference, but if neither one of them are there a good safety that can both play the position as well as read offenses, call audibles, be a motivator would also be a big help.
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DaBoys


Joined: 18 Feb 2005
Posts: 3020
Location: Lubbock Texas
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

star20 wrote:
DaBoys wrote:
I think DE/DT/NT has to be the pick at 14.

I believe DeCastro isn't an option because 1. he may not even be there. 2. we signed two guys to play Guard to long deals in the off season. (which sucks imo) I think the likelihood of us drafting a WR is the same as us drafting an OT. It isn't going to happen. We just drafted both those positions the last two years. I don't see saftey happening because they just signed Sensabaugh to a long deal and Pool in FA who will start this coming year. I think Jerry wants someone who will start day one, with the 14th pick. I think OLB is out of the question as well, because I don't think the team is ready to give up on Spencer and of course Ware is the other. I also don't think the Dallas organization is as disappointed in Spencer as we are. ILB is out too. Not only is there just one ILB who is potentially worthy of a #14 overall pick but dallas has drafted that position high the past two years and have a FA aquisition that they seem proud of. I think Dallas gets a pass rusher at some point, but I believe they feel set with their starters and thus won't go LB in the first. I don't think the team is moving Rat to 3-4 DE. We talk about it every offseason, and I bet we will be doing the same thing next offseason. The thing is we run a 4-3 alot of the time. We aren't a typical 3-4 base defense. We move around alot, and on passing downs we almost always rush Ware, so teams approach us like a 4-3 defense anyway. We have Ratliff who is our NT. Love it or hate it. It is what it is.

So when you think about it, 3-4 DE, 4-3 DT, and Center are our only weaknesses on our entire team that wasn't in some way, no matter how small, addressed already, including CB. We won't draft Center at number 14 soooo.....

I think Brockers would be a big body that could take a double team or two away from D.Ware and Spencer. I think F. Cox is a smart, experienced, relentless, disruptive force, that would give us something we have never seen from out 3-4 DEs. I understand why 3-4 DE isn't appreciated around here. It's because we have had nothing to appreciate. Watching the Giants and 49ers game last year, I was just blown away with how much impact number #94 for the 49ers had on that game. I often mistook him for the OLB because he was taking over the game. We have nothing like him at DE. You think Ware is a force now? line him up next to Justin Smith.... then watch. You think Spencer is always a tad late? I bet JJ Watt could get him there on time. I really feel that Cox or Brockers could be that guy. More Cox than Brockers, but I'd be happy with either one. If we don't go DE/DT at 14 then I want to trade back. or get Decastro Pray
DeCastro can quite easily be up there at 14 because that is about the position people take starting gaurd / centers. If Cox can be the pass rusher they are raving him to be he would make a huge difference, but if neither one of them are there a good safety that can both play the position as well as read offenses, call audibles, be a motivator would also be a big help.



The way it seems to be shaking out, I could easily see DeCastro, Brockers, Cox, Poe, and Kirkpatrick all available when the Boys pick.

Colts. Andrew Luck
Redskins. Robert Griffin III
Minnesota. Matt Kalil
Cleveland. Trent Richardson
Tampa Bay. Morris Claiborne
St. Louis. Justin Blackmon
Jacksonville. Quinton Coples
Miami. Ryan Tannehill
Carolina. Michael Floyd
Buffalo. Riley Reiff
Kansas City. Luke Kuechly
Seattle. Melvin Ingram
Arizona. Jonathan Martin

Dallas. Fletcher Cox? Michael Brockers? David DeCastro? Dre KirkPatrick? Dontari Poe?

Maybe One more of the D-linemen are gone. Maybe DeCastro is gone, but either way we have several guys that we appear interested in that will be available at our pick and be the best players available. Dallas is in a good situation this year. They could even trade back 2 or 3 spots and get one of these guys plus an extra pick.

As far as drafting a safety if Cox and DeCastro are gone, I'm not totally for it. I would want Brockers or Poe before any safety this year, But if we did in fact go safety at 14 then it's between the Alabama boys. I favor Kirkpatrick over Barron simply because Kirkpatrick has more versatility as far as doubling as a corner and a FS. We could use him more often and earlier on, than we could Barron. I wouldnt be upset with Kirkpatrick at 14, but I wouldn't like Barron without trading back first.
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Matts4313 wrote:
I agree with daboys, some of you might be insane.

The_Slamman wrote:
Daboys is right.

Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
BTW, DaBoys wins this thread.
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GeneralDissaray


Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Posts: 4456
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:16 am    Post subject: Re: Why a DE in the 1st round? Reply with quote

htfryar wrote:
I keep seeing tons of people saying that if Decastro is gone when we go on the clock, they want Cox, Brockers or Coples at #14. Why? Was 3-4 DE really that big of a problem for us last season? We have Coleman, Hatcher, Spears and Lissemore on the roster already. They are all solid, but not spectacular. They do their jobs, which is play the run and tie up blockers. None of the DE's who are possible picks at #14 are going to make that much of an improvement. They aren't going to come in and provide a big pass rush. That is not the job of a 3-4 DE.

Our defense was horrible against the pass last season. We need a DB or a pass rusher more than we need a DE. If we want to improve our defense, then we should either take Dre Kirkpatrick or Courtney Upshaw at #14 or trade down a few spots and take Mark Barron, Stephon Gilmore or Janoris Jenkins. Any of those 5 guys would make a bigger impact on our defense than would any of the DE's. If you really think DE was that big of a problem, then the best way to fix it is to draft a real NT and slide Ratliff over to DE. Washington's Alameda Ta'amu at #81 would do more for our defense than would a DE at #14.

I really want to hear what the reasoning is behind a DE at #14. Enlighten me fellas, because I just don't see the value.


I also believe Ratliff would be as good or better at DE than any of the guys available in the draft. If Poe had dominated on tape, I would be all about him. If Decastro is gone, I'd rather try to move down. If we can't I'd take Kuechly, and try Carter at OLB. Really don't like the value in our range.

Getting back to your question, I agree that a true NT would significantly help our D. That's why I took both Chapman in the third, and Baptiste in the 5th in my latest mock. Not as confident about Brent as most are.
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