| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
mcmurtry86
Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 16278
|
 Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 6:56 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
|
| goldfishwars wrote: | | mcmurtry86 wrote: | | The Pats are going to draft Barron and cut Chung? Does not compute. |
Not an immediate cut, but if we drafted Barron and recently signed Gregory and then when you factor in CB conversions options at FS it might happen at the end of 2012. He's in a contract year and has missed a lot of football. I'm not advocating it btw, but it would not shock me. |
Gregory is terrible. A rookie Barron (and the Pats tend to try to bring safeties along slowly) with an awful Gregory is significantly worse than Chung/Ihedigbo.
Cutting Pat Chung - a guy whose injuries frustrate me a lot - is ridiculous. He's cheap and a pretty decent player when healthy.
| Quote: |
| Quote: | | Regardless, Barron is looking like a top 20, possibly top 15 pick. At 31 he's a pipe dream. |
He's recovering from double-hernia surgery, it could totally happen.
|
Given how good he has looked in workouts and at his pro day, it isn't going to happen. 7 weeks ago it looked possible, now I doubt he gets out of the top 20. He looks like he'll be ready to go in August, if not earlier.
| Quote: | | Quote: | | I also don't understand why people are projecting Still to be a 5-technique. He seems like an ideal 4-3 3-technique who could maybe play 5-tech in a 1-gap scheme. But as a 2-gapper? I think that's not playing to his strengths. He might be able to do it, but there are better options to be found there. |
He's a space-eater with long-arms, I'd say he's a really good fit for us in either front and this is a widely-held view.
|
There's more to succeeding in a 2-gap scheme than having long arms. When I watch Still, I see a guy who is better at shooting gaps than reading and reacting. Too often, he overpursues or blows his gap responsibility. Other than "having long arms" and "being a space eater" I don't see why you'd project him as a top 2-gap 5-technique. He might be able to do it, but he's a much better fit inside in a 4-3. He's going to find the best success in the NFL if he is in a scheme where he can attack all the time.
| Quote: |
| Quote: | | Also, replacing Mark Anderson with Kyle Wilber seems crazy. The Pats have to find a quality edge player early in the draft because their current 4-3 DE/3-4 OLB group is appalling. |
Firstly, in an ideal world we trade down and get more picks. We're not going fix all our needs in this draft without doing that. |
They could go DE/OLB/S in their first 3 picks and hit all their big needs. I don't see why that's so crazy. I don't expect it to happen, but it surely could. You'd get 3 top-50 prospects at big holes.
| Quote: | | Secondly - who said he was a replacement for Anderson? You want to spend a high-pick on a one-down speed-rusher who you can run on all-day? |
Uh no, and I didn't say that. I said they need to replace Anderson - as in find someone who can slot in on the edge and someone who can get to the QB. The Pats OLB/DE group is terrible. Like, near the worst in the league bad. You have 4-3 DE's of........Deaderick and Scott? 3-4 OLB's of Ninkovich and.....Scott? Cunningham? That's putrid, and it's not going to cut it if the Pats want to actually improve their defense.
| Quote: | | No thanks. Those guys are dime-a-dozen and you can find one in free agency for chump change like we did last year. |
Really? Where are these 10 sack guys? Why haven't the Pats found one? Where are these free agent pass rushers to be had? You've got Andre Carter who can't play a 3-4, is old and coming off a major leg injury. He could help in a rotation, but he likely isn't going to have the same impact he did last year.
| Quote: | | Wilber is a nice comprimise when you realise none of the pass-rush prospects who will be available when we pick would be worth taking with a high-draft pick. |
I'd gladly take Shea McClellin or Andre Branch in the top 50. Top pass rushers? No. But definite upgrades over the crap the Patriots are currently slated to line up and honestly, look at the players still out unsigned. There isn't anyone who is better than the guys they have.
An edge unit of Ninkovich/Wilber/Scott/Cunningham is awful. Not saying that a 1st rounder would definitely work out and be a great player. But the Pats need to find someone who at least has "impact" potential. Scott/Cunningham are possible waiver wire candidates who have what, 2 sacks between them in the last 2 years? Ninkovich is OK but in an ideal world, he is the worst member of your front 7.
It's one thing to say "yeah the Pats don't want pass rushers who are huge liabilities against the run". It's another to imply that those guys are easily found (because the Pats have lacked quality sub rushers for seemingly 4-5 years, other than 1 mediocre year of Banta-Cain and last year with Anderson). It's still another thing altogether to think that their pass rush will be anything short of horrific counting on marginal players. It has to be the #1 or #1B priority to upgrade that unit. If the Pats wait until the 3rd round to fill the OLB/DE spot, they've failed IMO. Drafting WR's and CB's before addressing the edge spot is totally crazy. One of those, if a great value presents itself, sure. But both? I'd be really, really frustrated if that was the case.
Let's face it, as bad as the Pats secondary has been, it's the failings to adequately replace the "old guard" in the front 7 that has killed the Patriots and IMO cost them at least 1 Super Bowl. Adalius Thomas flopping, Seymour being traded and Cunningham/Brace sucking has really left them short of talent. You want to win a Super Bowl, you start up front. I want to see a big investment in the front 7 three weeks from now.
Last edited by mcmurtry86 on Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:04 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
BP
Joined: 14 Feb 2011
Posts: 2206
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 8:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
| Mark Barron is not going to be anywhere near pick 27 according to Schefter, never mind 31. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
goldfishwars
Joined: 27 Mar 2011
Posts: 5424
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 3:24 am Post subject: |
|
|
|
| mcmurtry86 wrote: | Gregory is terrible. A rookie Barron (and the Pats tend to try to bring safeties along slowly) with an awful Gregory is significantly worse than Chung/Ihedigbo.
Cutting Pat Chung - a guy whose injuries frustrate me a lot - is ridiculous. He's cheap and a pretty decent player when healthy. |
Why do you think he's cheap? We have two options with the guy, slap a franchise tag on him or let him him see what he can get on the market. If I'm Chung, I might look at what I can get. Again, I'm not advocating this cut - but it's completely plausible especially when you consider our quirky moves in the position of late.
| Quote: | | Given how good he has looked in workouts and at his pro day, it isn't going to happen. 7 weeks ago it looked possible, now I doubt he gets out of the top 20. He looks like he'll be ready to go in August, if not earlier. |
Okay, I'll concede his stock has risen of late, I didn't realise how much it had. But who takes him? Jets? Chargers? Eagles? I have a hard time slotting him ahead of their other needs.
| Quote: | | There's more to succeeding in a 2-gap scheme than having long arms. When I watch Still, I see a guy who is better at shooting gaps than reading and reacting. Too often, he overpursues or blows his gap responsibility. Other than "having long arms" and "being a space eater" I don't see why you'd project him as a top 2-gap 5-technique. He might be able to do it, but he's a much better fit inside in a 4-3. He's going to find the best success in the NFL if he is in a scheme where he can attack all the time. |
He's scheme diverse, I think he can play pretty much anywhere - which is perfect if we're keeping both looks for next season. He absolutely has the physical abilities to play as a 2-gap DE. He has great lower-body strength, sheds blockers and can eat up double-teams. I don't really care what he was asked to do at Penn State, he was a one-man defensive front there.
Why are you assuming because he attacked a lot on College, he's incapable of taking direction at the Pats? The guy was a team captain at Penn State - he's a cerebral individual.
| Quote: | | They could go DE/OLB/S in their first 3 picks and hit all their big needs. I don't see why that's so crazy. I don't expect it to happen, but it surely could. You'd get 3 top-50 prospects at big holes. |
Name names and we can discuss.
| Quote: | | Uh no, and I didn't say that. I said they need to replace Anderson - as in find someone who can slot in on the edge and someone who can get to the QB. The Pats OLB/DE group is terrible. Like, near the worst in the league bad. You have 4-3 DE's of........Deaderick and Scott? 3-4 OLB's of Ninkovich and.....Scott? Cunningham? That's putrid, and it's not going to cut it if the Pats want to actually improve their defense. |
Yeah, we've all been saying this for years. We all know BB values other qualities ahead of pass-rushing for whatever reason. Play the run and drop into coverage. I've already said that this draft was based on what we might do, rather than what I would do.
One thing you're forgetting here is Wilber's coverage ability. You can't lay all the blame on our secondaery from last year, our linebackers weren't covering well either.
| Quote: | | Really? Where are these 10 sack guys? Why haven't the Pats found one? Where are these free agent pass rushers to be had? You've got Andre Carter who can't play a 3-4, is old and coming off a major leg injury. He could help in a rotation, but he likely isn't going to have the same impact he did last year. |
Anderson hadn't had a double-digit sack season since '06. In the 5 seasons before he joined us, he had a total of 13 sacks. You don't think that might have something to do with the way we used him? As soon as he was asked to do something other than come in and russ the passer he sucked. The fact we kept him fresh and on the sidelines, meant he had one task to complete every time he entered the game. Nice work if you can find it.
| Quote: | | I'd gladly take Shea McClellin or Andre Branch in the top 50. Top pass rushers? No. But definite upgrades over the crap the Patriots are currently slated to line up and honestly, look at the players still out unsigned. There isn't anyone who is better than the guys they have. |
I like him, but McClellin's draft stock is shooting up this year. We'd probably have to part with a 1st rounder to get him, which is fine if you think he's worth it. But, this is a guy who was talked about in the 3rd and 4th rounds not that long ago. He has a pretty small frame and I have big concerns about how he'd play the run in the NFL.
Branch is someone I quite like, but he's raw as a pass-rusher - regularly slow off the snap and doesn't have a bunch of rush moves. If we're drafting a rusher in the 1st round, then I want someone we can plug-in next year and he seems a bit of a developmental project.
_________________
Thanks Duron Harmon! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
