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diamondbull424
Joined: 02 Dec 2007
Posts: 10033
Location: Baltimore, MD
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 Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:12 am Post subject: |
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| BrandonK wrote: | | SnA ExclusiVe wrote: | The only way I could see Peyton coming here is if Flacco was serious about his $15 million contract and Ozzie just says no, releases him and Peyton comes here to replace Joe while we look for another QB.
However, the chances of that happening (thankfully) are probably around .00001%. |
I'd also take into account the 'value' Flacco would get on the trade market. I could see a team giving two-1st rounders for him, if not more. If Flacco holds to his $15 million demands, and Manning really is willing to sign at the minimum...
Realistically, Manning probably has 2-3 years left. I think Taylor would grow so much learning behind Manning, making him an even more valuable player.
I'm not pinning for a signing of Manning, but I don't think it should be tossed aside. |
Welcome to the forums. Be sure to post in the Introduction thread.
Now onto the post. I have to disagree with your above logic. Just think about it like this. If Joe truly wants $15M/year, why would any team be willing to trade two 1sts for him? Heck, at such an exorbitant deal, why would any team even be willing to offer more than a 2nd? The only team that might've done a deal for Flacco like the one you suggest is the Oakland Raiders... but they already have their "guy" and have been trying to change the way they do business, with their GM hire.
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Baixis
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Flaccomania wrote: | | RAVINGMADD wrote: | | Baixis wrote: | | I would sign Manning in a heartbeat! I don't care how much you like Joe or support Joe, no one can honestly say he is better than Manning, or even that he is a great QB! Sign Peyton, and trade Joe for 1st. Use that 1st or a 2nd to draft Tannehill or another QB to groom behind Manning for a couple years, and MOVE ON from Flacco! Joe may be decent, but that's all he will ever be! Even if Manning got hit and put out in week 1, I would still favor this plan, because it's the perfect way to separate this great organization from the ho-hum Joe! |
I guess you forgot about the AFCCG. He was certainly a bit better than ho-hum or decent. I don't blame you (I'd like to forget about that game too), but Joe certainly wasn't the reason we lost. I wasn't a huge supporter of Flacco before that game and I might have agreed with you had he not made that comeback at the end. But after the way he played in that game and the way he's played in clutch situations for the past two years, I'm fully behind Joe Flacco. Sure he may never put up a ton of stats, but the guy has a great arm with potential to put up some pretty good numbers, and he's shown the ability to make the comeback drive at the end of the game. If he had more ability to break tackles, the guy would be just as good as Big Ben. |
Thank you.
When Joe is able to get into a rhythm and focus on being efficient rather than take big shots down field, he's easily a top 10 QB in the league. It's when we have a lead or early in games and he's asked to take 7 step drops and wait for routes to develop that he struggles. As soon as it gets to crunch time and we need a 2 minute drill, there's very few QBs in the NFL I'd take over Flacco. He did it in Pittsburgh last year in the playoffs but didn't come through due to drops, he did it against Pittsburgh on the road this season, and he did it once again in New England this year in the playoffs. Joe is big in big situations. It's amazing the hate the dude gets. |
| Quote: | | The dude performs. Who cares that he's "ho hum"? |
Lots of us fans care that he's ho hum!!! We'll never win the big one with him, period!
Keep drinking the kool-aid boys! |
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Flaccomania
Joined: 12 Aug 2008
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Location: Parkville, MD
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Baixis wrote: | | Flaccomania wrote: | | RAVINGMADD wrote: | | Baixis wrote: | | I would sign Manning in a heartbeat! I don't care how much you like Joe or support Joe, no one can honestly say he is better than Manning, or even that he is a great QB! Sign Peyton, and trade Joe for 1st. Use that 1st or a 2nd to draft Tannehill or another QB to groom behind Manning for a couple years, and MOVE ON from Flacco! Joe may be decent, but that's all he will ever be! Even if Manning got hit and put out in week 1, I would still favor this plan, because it's the perfect way to separate this great organization from the ho-hum Joe! |
I guess you forgot about the AFCCG. He was certainly a bit better than ho-hum or decent. I don't blame you (I'd like to forget about that game too), but Joe certainly wasn't the reason we lost. I wasn't a huge supporter of Flacco before that game and I might have agreed with you had he not made that comeback at the end. But after the way he played in that game and the way he's played in clutch situations for the past two years, I'm fully behind Joe Flacco. Sure he may never put up a ton of stats, but the guy has a great arm with potential to put up some pretty good numbers, and he's shown the ability to make the comeback drive at the end of the game. If he had more ability to break tackles, the guy would be just as good as Big Ben. |
Thank you.
When Joe is able to get into a rhythm and focus on being efficient rather than take big shots down field, he's easily a top 10 QB in the league. It's when we have a lead or early in games and he's asked to take 7 step drops and wait for routes to develop that he struggles. As soon as it gets to crunch time and we need a 2 minute drill, there's very few QBs in the NFL I'd take over Flacco. He did it in Pittsburgh last year in the playoffs but didn't come through due to drops, he did it against Pittsburgh on the road this season, and he did it once again in New England this year in the playoffs. Joe is big in big situations. It's amazing the hate the dude gets. |
| Quote: | | The dude performs. Who cares that he's "ho hum"? |
Lots of us fans care that he's ho hum!!! We'll never win the big one with him, period!
Keep drinking the kool-aid boys! |
And what makes you think that? The fact that he was leading a comeback drive on the road in Pittsburgh in 2010 until 2 key drops? Or the fact that he threw the game winning TD pass to send us to the superbowl this year that Evans allowed to get knocked out?
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RAVINGMADD
Joined: 15 Jan 2009
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Yeah regardless of whether we won or not, Joe deserves some credit for throwing a pass that would have put us into the Super Bowl. It's not like we are one and done in the playoffs every year or barely get in. And Joe has played well against some really good defenses and in big games. I'm guessing you haven't watched much of Joe these past two years? Yeah we didn't win the Super Bowl this year, but if Lee Evans holds onto the ball for an extra second, we would have been there and no one would have been saying we can't win the big one with Joe. So 1 second is pretty much the difference between people like you saying he's a top 10 QB or saying we can't win the big one with him. Are you really going to let 1 second make that much of a difference? |
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Flaccomania
Joined: 12 Aug 2008
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Location: Parkville, MD
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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| RAVINGMADD wrote: | | Yeah regardless of whether we won or not, Joe deserves some credit for throwing a pass that would have put us into the Super Bowl. It's not like we are one and done in the playoffs every year or barely get in. And Joe has played well against some really good defenses and in big games. I'm guessing you haven't watched much of Joe these past two years? Yeah we didn't win the Super Bowl this year, but if Lee Evans holds onto the ball for an extra second, we would have been there and no one would have been saying we can't win the big one with Joe. So 1 second is pretty much the difference between people like you saying he's a top 10 QB or saying we can't win the big one with him. Are you really going to let 1 second make that much of a difference? |
Exactly. Lee Evans catches that ball and everything is very, very different. But the thing that remains the same between the two scenarios is what Joe did. He shouldn't be knocked for his WR dropping the ball, nor his kicker shanking a gimme kick.
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StRawz11
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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I'd rather have a healthy Peyton Manning than giving Flacco a long term deal. This Ravens team with Peyton would be the favorites in the AFC imo.
But realistically it's not going to happen. It's a pipe dream. Flacco is going to be the QB of this team like it or not
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draftguru1234
Joined: 09 Feb 2011
Posts: 546
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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I"m not exactly a big Flacco fan, but the guy took us to the SB (for all I care).
I'd rather us get better WR's/OC before giving up on Flacco. |
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Baixis
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 1432
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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| RAVINGMADD wrote: | | Yeah regardless of whether we won or not, Joe deserves some credit for throwing a pass that would have put us into the Super Bowl. It's not like we are one and done in the playoffs every year or barely get in. And Joe has played well against some really good defenses and in big games. I'm guessing you haven't watched much of Joe these past two years? Yeah we didn't win the Super Bowl this year, but if Lee Evans holds onto the ball for an extra second, we would have been there and no one would have been saying we can't win the big one with Joe. So 1 second is pretty much the difference between people like you saying he's a top 10 QB or saying we can't win the big one with him. Are you really going to let 1 second make that much of a difference? |
Actually, I have watched almost every single one, thank you.
| Quote: | | And what makes you think that? The fact that he was leading a comeback drive on the road in Pittsburgh in 2010 until 2 key drops? Or the fact that he threw the game winning TD pass to send us to the superbowl this year that Evans allowed to get knocked out? |
Because he has played way more bad games than he has good games! Because he has thrown way more bad passes than good passes! You guys keep bringing up one or two good games or good drives, but what about all the bad games, bad drives, bad throws?! Granted, I put a lot of blame on Cameron too, but not going through the reads, or never looking at a wide open Boldin, is NOT Cameron (not running Rice enough is definitely Cameron though!). Again, if not for having some really good talent around him, on the offense AND defense, we would not have had the year we had! If we had a better QB last year (and yes, I mean guys like Stafford, Ryan, Romo, ALEX SMITH!) I truly believe we would have been in the SB!
Joe Flacco is nothing but average (Kool-aid!!!), and it's time to find something better! Cleveland, Buffalo, Denver - these teams could use an average QB (although I personally like McCoy and would like to see what he could do with more talent around him). The Ravens?! We have a borderline GREAT team, that is being held back by the QB and OC. That's just all there is to it, and if you don't/can't see that, then I'm sorry, but you are most likely drunk off the Kool-aid (FLACCOmania?!?!? I believe that says it all!). |
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Flaccomania
Joined: 12 Aug 2008
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Location: Parkville, MD
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Baixis wrote: | | Because he has played way more bad games than he has good games! |
Stats and wins argue otherwise.
| Quote: | | Because he has thrown way more bad passes than good passes! |
Completion % argues otherwise.
| Quote: | | You guys keep bringing up one or two good games or good drives, but what about all the bad games, bad drives, bad throws?! |
Start bringing up bad ones then, and I'm sure I can outnumber you at 5:1 at the minimum.
| Quote: | | Granted, I put a lot of blame on Cameron too, but not going through the reads, or never looking at a wide open Boldin, is NOT Cameron (not running Rice enough is definitely Cameron though!). |
Find me a single example where Boldin was wide open and Joe just didn't look for him. I'll wait.
| Quote: | | Again, if not for having some really good talent around him, on the offense AND defense, we would not have had the year we had! If we had a better QB last year (and yes, I mean guys like Stafford, Ryan, Romo, ALEX SMITH!) I truly believe we would have been in the SB! |
HAHAHHAHAHAHAHA. Wow, I'm sorry, but you including Ryan and Alex Smith in there is flat out hilarious. You obviously listen to the media way too much.
| Quote: | | Joe Flacco is nothing but average (Kool-aid!!!), and it's time to find something better! |
If 10-12 is average and 5-4 in the playoffs is average, and 44 wins in 4 seasons is average, then I see a lot of below average guys in the league.
| Quote: | | Cleveland, Buffalo, Denver - these teams could use an average QB (although I personally like McCoy and would like to see what he could do with more talent around him). The Ravens?! We have a borderline GREAT team, that is being held back by the QB and OC. That's just all there is to it, and if you don't/can't see that, then I'm sorry, but you are most likely drunk off the Kool-aid (FLACCOmania?!?!? I believe that says it all!). |
You still haven't put together a single logical argument. All you're basically saying is "lalalalala I can't hear you". Put together an argument, come back, and I'll have fun with this. I'll wait on ya.
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Baixis
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Flaccomania wrote: | | Baixis wrote: | | Because he has played way more bad games than he has good games! |
Stats and wins argue otherwise.
| Quote: | | Because he has thrown way more bad passes than good passes! |
Completion % argues otherwise.
| Quote: | | You guys keep bringing up one or two good games or good drives, but what about all the bad games, bad drives, bad throws?! |
Start bringing up bad ones then, and I'm sure I can outnumber you at 5:1 at the minimum.
| Quote: | | Granted, I put a lot of blame on Cameron too, but not going through the reads, or never looking at a wide open Boldin, is NOT Cameron (not running Rice enough is definitely Cameron though!). |
Find me a single example where Boldin was wide open and Joe just didn't look for him. I'll wait.
| Quote: | | Again, if not for having some really good talent around him, on the offense AND defense, we would not have had the year we had! If we had a better QB last year (and yes, I mean guys like Stafford, Ryan, Romo, ALEX SMITH!) I truly believe we would have been in the SB! |
HAHAHHAHAHAHAHA. Wow, I'm sorry, but you including Ryan and Alex Smith in there is flat out hilarious. You obviously listen to the media way too much.
| Quote: | | Joe Flacco is nothing but average (Kool-aid!!!), and it's time to find something better! |
If 10-12 is average and 5-4 in the playoffs is average, and 44 wins in 4 seasons is average, then I see a lot of below average guys in the league.
| Quote: | | Cleveland, Buffalo, Denver - these teams could use an average QB (although I personally like McCoy and would like to see what he could do with more talent around him). The Ravens?! We have a borderline GREAT team, that is being held back by the QB and OC. That's just all there is to it, and if you don't/can't see that, then I'm sorry, but you are most likely drunk off the Kool-aid (FLACCOmania?!?!? I believe that says it all!). |
You still haven't put together a single logical argument. All you're basically saying is "lalalalala I can't hear you". Put together an argument, come back, and I'll have fun with this. I'll wait on ya. |
Like I said Flacco man, I have watched almost every single game the past couple of years. I've seen bad play after bad play, bad pass after bad pass. I don't need to point out every single one to PROVE anything to you. I believe it is you FLACCOmania, that are just so all over Flacco's n#@$, that is saying lalalalala. It is YOU that is obviously drunk on the Kool-aid (and probably high on the crack too). And YES, EVERYONE of those QBs I named would have taken our Ravens farther than Joe has. All those wins you mentioned, including the playoffs, are IN SPITE of Flacco! I used to be a Flacco fan, after all the other QBs we've been through. But unlike you, I never hopped aboard his jock. I paid attention and starting noticing flaws, which made me start watching even closer, and eventually come to the conclusion that I have. Review the tapes son! Everything I've said can be seen, IF YOU ACTUALLY WATCH as much as I do. But as long as you are FLACCOman, nothing I say will matter because you refuse to see the truth. Seeing the truth, and admitting the truth, would no longer allow you to be FLACCOmania, and therefore, this argument probably has as much to do with YOU as it does with Joe. Like I said son, keep drinking the Kool-aid, and I will keep pushing for a better team. |
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Flaccomania
Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 16746
Location: Parkville, MD
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Baixis wrote: | | Like I said Flacco man, I have watched almost every single game the past couple of years. I've seen bad play after bad play, bad pass after bad pass. I don't need to point out every single one to PROVE anything to you. I believe it is you FLACCOmania, that are just so all over Flacco's n#@$, that is saying lalalalala. It is YOU that is obviously drunk on the Kool-aid (and probably high on the crack too). And YES, EVERYONE of those QBs I named would have taken our Ravens farther than Joe has. All those wins you mentioned, including the playoffs, are IN SPITE of Flacco! I used to be a Flacco fan, after all the other QBs we've been through. But unlike you, I never hopped aboard his jock. I paid attention and starting noticing flaws, which made me start watching even closer, and eventually come to the conclusion that I have. Review the tapes son! Everything I've said can be seen, IF YOU ACTUALLY WATCH as much as I do. But as long as you are FLACCOman, nothing I say will matter because you refuse to see the truth. Seeing the truth, and admitting the truth, would no longer allow you to be FLACCOmania, and therefore, this argument probably has as much to do with YOU as it does with Joe. Like I said son, keep drinking the Kool-aid, and I will keep pushing for a better team. |
That's a lot of words to say "I don't have a logical argument that I can support."
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Baixis
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Flaccomania wrote: | | Baixis wrote: | | Like I said Flacco man, I have watched almost every single game the past couple of years. I've seen bad play after bad play, bad pass after bad pass. I don't need to point out every single one to PROVE anything to you. I believe it is you FLACCOmania, that are just so all over Flacco's n#@$, that is saying lalalalala. It is YOU that is obviously drunk on the Kool-aid (and probably high on the crack too). And YES, EVERYONE of those QBs I named would have taken our Ravens farther than Joe has. All those wins you mentioned, including the playoffs, are IN SPITE of Flacco! I used to be a Flacco fan, after all the other QBs we've been through. But unlike you, I never hopped aboard his jock. I paid attention and starting noticing flaws, which made me start watching even closer, and eventually come to the conclusion that I have. Review the tapes son! Everything I've said can be seen, IF YOU ACTUALLY WATCH as much as I do. But as long as you are FLACCOman, nothing I say will matter because you refuse to see the truth. Seeing the truth, and admitting the truth, would no longer allow you to be FLACCOmania, and therefore, this argument probably has as much to do with YOU as it does with Joe. Like I said son, keep drinking the Kool-aid, and I will keep pushing for a better team. |
That's a lot of words to say "I don't have a logical argument that I can support." |
Back at ya, jock hopper! |
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Flaccomania
Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 16746
Location: Parkville, MD
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Baixis wrote: | | Flaccomania wrote: | | Baixis wrote: | | Like I said Flacco man, I have watched almost every single game the past couple of years. I've seen bad play after bad play, bad pass after bad pass. I don't need to point out every single one to PROVE anything to you. I believe it is you FLACCOmania, that are just so all over Flacco's n#@$, that is saying lalalalala. It is YOU that is obviously drunk on the Kool-aid (and probably high on the crack too). And YES, EVERYONE of those QBs I named would have taken our Ravens farther than Joe has. All those wins you mentioned, including the playoffs, are IN SPITE of Flacco! I used to be a Flacco fan, after all the other QBs we've been through. But unlike you, I never hopped aboard his jock. I paid attention and starting noticing flaws, which made me start watching even closer, and eventually come to the conclusion that I have. Review the tapes son! Everything I've said can be seen, IF YOU ACTUALLY WATCH as much as I do. But as long as you are FLACCOman, nothing I say will matter because you refuse to see the truth. Seeing the truth, and admitting the truth, would no longer allow you to be FLACCOmania, and therefore, this argument probably has as much to do with YOU as it does with Joe. Like I said son, keep drinking the Kool-aid, and I will keep pushing for a better team. |
That's a lot of words to say "I don't have a logical argument that I can support." |
Back at ya, jock hopper! |
Stay classy, buddy. Let me know when you have an argument that you're willing to support.
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Baixis
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Flaccomania wrote: | | Baixis wrote: | | Flaccomania wrote: | | Baixis wrote: | | Like I said Flacco man, I have watched almost every single game the past couple of years. I've seen bad play after bad play, bad pass after bad pass. I don't need to point out every single one to PROVE anything to you. I believe it is you FLACCOmania, that are just so all over Flacco's n#@$, that is saying lalalalala. It is YOU that is obviously drunk on the Kool-aid (and probably high on the crack too). And YES, EVERYONE of those QBs I named would have taken our Ravens farther than Joe has. All those wins you mentioned, including the playoffs, are IN SPITE of Flacco! I used to be a Flacco fan, after all the other QBs we've been through. But unlike you, I never hopped aboard his jock. I paid attention and starting noticing flaws, which made me start watching even closer, and eventually come to the conclusion that I have. Review the tapes son! Everything I've said can be seen, IF YOU ACTUALLY WATCH as much as I do. But as long as you are FLACCOman, nothing I say will matter because you refuse to see the truth. Seeing the truth, and admitting the truth, would no longer allow you to be FLACCOmania, and therefore, this argument probably has as much to do with YOU as it does with Joe. Like I said son, keep drinking the Kool-aid, and I will keep pushing for a better team. |
That's a lot of words to say "I don't have a logical argument that I can support." |
Back at ya, jock hopper! |
Stay classy, buddy. Let me know when you have an argument that you're willing to support. |
Again, BACK AT YOU FLACCOman! You have said NOTHING that supports your view! This is from last year son:
2011 Baltimore Ravens 16 16 312 542 57.6 3,610 6.7 20 12 31 203 80.9 39 88 2.3 1 11 6
That's 57.6 Comp. %! 20 TDs, 12 INTs, a QB rating of 81, and 11 fumbles!!! And you love this?! Yeah, it's not horrible!!! But it's far from good ENOUGH, and the dude has a career rating of 86 - NOT GREAT. We can find better, and win a SB, with better! Whatever though FLACCOman. He's not great and you're obviously in bed with him for life - how could you not be with a name like FLACCOmania?! - so like I said before, this argument will go nowhere with you, and I'm done. |
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SnA ExclusiVe
Joined: 01 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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@Flaccomania:
The two points that I will address are (1) his bad games, and (2) him missing open WR's.
(1) He's had a ton of bad games. Not only this year, but throughout his career. Sure, you can throw various excuses in there to exempt probably every one of those bad games, but the fact remains that this team is capable of winning IN SPITE of Flacco simply because of the talent around him. Take the Houston game this year, for example. If another QB that doesn't have the type of defense we have has that kind of game that Flacco had, we lose or get blown out. There have been numerous Pittsburgh games where Flacco has not played well, numerous New England games, Indy in the playoffs, Seattle, Jacksonville, etc.
The 2 games that stick out to me the most right away is the OT New England game a couple years ago where we had the infamous "Cover 2" dilemna in which it appeared Belichick was playing Cover 2 the whole game and Flacco / Cameron didn't know how to beat it, thus our offense was completely inept for like the whole freaking game. Another one that sticks out is the OT Houston game from last year, where much of the same happened. Our offense was completely inept, Flacco couldn't make a throw to save his life and our defense carried us in to OT and won the game (also thanks to Sam Koch for an amazing punt after, wouldn't you know it, another 3-and-out). And lastly, how about the Pittsburgh game where there was the infamous "Troy Sack fumble" that a lot of people think ended the game essentially. What people don't remember is Flacco throwing a bounce-pass to Ed Dickson on 4th down to ACTUALLY end the game while attempting to lead a comebcak. One of the worst flows to the flats I've ever seen in my life.
Also not to mention the other numerous playoff games, regular season games where Flacco just looks completely shell shocked and bad, but this just adds to the "Jeckyl and Hyde" image that Flacco has received because you also have games like Arizona this year where he's just throwing dimes EVERYWHERE on the field and looks like Tom Brady in the pocket.
(2) He constantly misses open WR's. I can't think of the specific games they happened in, but there was one game this year where Boldin was running a crossing route right in front of Flacco, and Flacco just stood there and checked it down. I know this happened frequently last year as well but I can't remember the specific games. The specific game I can think of was against Houston in the playoffs this year where Flacco took that sack where he literally cradled up and waited to be tackled. When they went back and looked at the replay there were several targets that Flacco could've thrown to, but instead he chose to hold on to the ball, and then cradle up and wait to be sacked.
And lastly, on your argument of "stats and wins argue otherwise", those are team accomplishments, and like I said our team is capable of winning in spite of Flacco. We are talking SPECIFICALLY about Flacco and him playing good games and bad games.
All the rest of your points I have no problem with (especially Alex Smith and Matt Ryan, WTF???)
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