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HiccupGuy
Joined: 01 Jun 2011
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 Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| valkrei wrote: | | HiccupGuy wrote: | | Rearviewmirror wrote: | | HiccupGuy wrote: | If we trade Bowe to get RG3 I will not approve untill he wins a Superbowl.
I would rather change my stance on trade to many draft picks. Then trade Bowe. |
I have a complete man-crush on RG3. I would be willing to trade Bowe, but would prefer to give up picks. I would give up every pick we have this draft to get RG3. |
I like RG3 and would love him on our team. Bowe is just my favorite player in the NFL atm. So that's the main reason I don't wanna trade him plus I don't trust Baldwin and Breaston to get the job done.
Also why take away our best or second best offensive player away from a rookie QB. We gave Cassel all the talent for success. Why give less to a rookie that we would want to be successful.
But anywho I would be in your boat trading all our picks to get him if it meant we gotta
keep Bowe. |
I belive RG3 could do more with less then cassel can do with more. |
I am sure he would but that was not the point.
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Last edited by HiccupGuy on Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:29 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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DT58_lives_on
Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 5011
Location: St. Cloud, MN
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | How about this for a proposed trade:
#'s 1, 3, 5, 6 this year
#'s 1, 5 next year
Conditional pick(s) in 2014: If we win the SB #1 and #3 if we make it to the Conference Championship game #1, if we make the playoffs #2, 5 |
So you are talking about at minimum trading 7 picks for one guy, and in that scenario it would include 3 first round draft picks?
Absolutely not, I wouldn't make that trade for Luck let alone RGIII. That would drastically hamper our ability to draft for depth, and ultimately affect our salary cap as well because we would need to fill the team with veterans who require more money. Toss in that if we wanted quality veterans ...it would cost much much more.
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Rearviewmirror
Joined: 24 Jan 2009
Posts: 17594
Location: Koch Arena. Ryknowssd makes BAD sigs
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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| DT58_lives_on wrote: | | Quote: | How about this for a proposed trade:
#'s 1, 3, 5, 6 this year
#'s 1, 5 next year
Conditional pick(s) in 2014: If we win the SB #1 and #3 if we make it to the Conference Championship game #1, if we make the playoffs #2, 5 |
So you are talking about at minimum trading 7 picks for one guy, and in that scenario it would include 3 first round draft picks?
Absolutely not, I wouldn't make that trade for Luck let alone RGIII. That would drastically hamper our ability to draft for depth, and ultimately affect our salary cap as well because we would need to fill the team with veterans who require more money. Toss in that if we wanted quality veterans ...it would cost much much more. |
yep that's how confident I feel about RG3. Would I prefer to give up less? Sure, but if that is what it took to get done, I'd do it.
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DT58_lives_on
Joined: 04 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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Wow...can't say I agree. But honestly I don't think any player is worth that much. If we knew, not believed he'd be the next great QB, maybe, but I still see there being considerable issues down the road.
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bigschmadt00
Joined: 17 Dec 2008
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Location: Seeing what condition my condition is in
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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If we traded Bowe keep in mind we could not only find a replacement in the draft, but a UFA like Colston, Wayne, etc. Are they Bowe, no way, but they'd be nice replacements along with a mid rounder to develop.
I still stay witht he stance that you only trade Bowe if we don't feel like a long term deal can be reached. If we are close, and it's just a matter of time, then there is no way I trade him.
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valkrei
Joined: 10 Apr 2008
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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Worse case scenario, we make it harder for other teams to trade up. The more we offer the more they have to in repsonse. Not a bad strategy if that is our strategy at all.
Also the other mystery team could be the raiders. they might be willing to trade the next 5 seasons of 1st round draft picks that they have remaining to trade.
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Chiefer
Joined: 20 Nov 2009
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Location: Somewhere in an Arizona Desert...
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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| DT58_lives_on wrote: | | Wow...can't say I agree. But honestly I don't think any player is worth that much. If we knew, not believed he'd be the next great QB, maybe, but I still see there being considerable issues down the road. |
But see that's exactly it.
If you honestly believe that RGIII is the next best thing at QB, can be your franchise for the next decade and can lead you to Super Bowl victories then you give up the farm for him. That's exactly the kind of decision you need to make if you're drafting him at #2 overall and trading up.
You say no player is worth that much, that's bull crap. You wouldn't give up the entire farm for Peyton Manning in his prime? I know I would.
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| Iggles wrote: | | Come on, man, these are the kinds of statements that make Chiefer look 100% right |
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Rearviewmirror
Joined: 24 Jan 2009
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Location: Koch Arena. Ryknowssd makes BAD sigs
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Chiefer wrote: | | DT58_lives_on wrote: | | Wow...can't say I agree. But honestly I don't think any player is worth that much. If we knew, not believed he'd be the next great QB, maybe, but I still see there being considerable issues down the road. |
But see that's exactly it.
If you honestly believe that RGIII is the next best thing at QB, can be your franchise for the next decade and can lead you to Super Bowl victories then you give up the farm for him. That's exactly the kind of decision you need to make if you're drafting him at #2 overall and trading up.
You say no player is worth that much, that's bull crap. You wouldn't give up the entire farm for Peyton Manning in his prime? I know I would. |
ding ding ding ding!!!! Bigs I'm taking away your TVOR privileges and giving them to Chiefer.
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bigschmadt00
Joined: 17 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Rearviewmirror wrote: | | Chiefer wrote: | | DT58_lives_on wrote: | | Wow...can't say I agree. But honestly I don't think any player is worth that much. If we knew, not believed he'd be the next great QB, maybe, but I still see there being considerable issues down the road. |
But see that's exactly it.
If you honestly believe that RGIII is the next best thing at QB, can be your franchise for the next decade and can lead you to Super Bowl victories then you give up the farm for him. That's exactly the kind of decision you need to make if you're drafting him at #2 overall and trading up.
You say no player is worth that much, that's bull crap. You wouldn't give up the entire farm for Peyton Manning in his prime? I know I would. |
ding ding ding ding!!!! Bigs I'm taking away your TVOR privileges and giving them to Chiefer. |
I think DT probably meant "prospect" and not "player." Of course you would give up the farm for a Manning is his prime type of player, but do you give that up for a guy who is totally unproven at the NFL level? Plenty of sure things have not panned out, and that is why it's not a smart move to give up boat loads of draft picks for one unproven prospect.
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Rearviewmirror
Joined: 24 Jan 2009
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Location: Koch Arena. Ryknowssd makes BAD sigs
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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| bigschmadt00 wrote: | | Rearviewmirror wrote: | | Chiefer wrote: | | DT58_lives_on wrote: | | Wow...can't say I agree. But honestly I don't think any player is worth that much. If we knew, not believed he'd be the next great QB, maybe, but I still see there being considerable issues down the road. |
But see that's exactly it.
If you honestly believe that RGIII is the next best thing at QB, can be your franchise for the next decade and can lead you to Super Bowl victories then you give up the farm for him. That's exactly the kind of decision you need to make if you're drafting him at #2 overall and trading up.
You say no player is worth that much, that's bull crap. You wouldn't give up the entire farm for Peyton Manning in his prime? I know I would. |
ding ding ding ding!!!! Bigs I'm taking away your TVOR privileges and giving them to Chiefer. |
I think DT probably meant "prospect" and not "player." Of course you would give up the farm for a Manning is his prime type of player, but do you give that up for a guy who is totally unproven at the NFL level? Plenty of sure things have not panned out, and that is why it's not a smart move to give up boat loads of draft picks for one unproven prospect. |
That's what Chiefer just said. If you believe (like I and many others do) that RG3 is going to be a top 5 QB in this league (and that's the worst I think he'll be) then yes you make that deal.
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Chiefer
Joined: 20 Nov 2009
Posts: 9976
Location: Somewhere in an Arizona Desert...
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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| bigschmadt00 wrote: |
I think DT probably meant "prospect" and not "player." Of course you would give up the farm for a Manning is his prime type of player, but do you give that up for a guy who is totally unproven at the NFL level? Plenty of sure things have not panned out, and that is why it's not a smart move to give up boat loads of draft picks for one unproven prospect. |
If you think he can be the next Great QB, lead your franchise for a decade and lead you to Super Bowl victories. Then that's a hell yes.
When was the last time we drafted a first round QB? Or won a Super Bowl? Taking chances is something we've never done and look where its got us, Zero playoff success in 20 years and an overall mediocre team since the 80s.
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| Iggles wrote: | | Come on, man, these are the kinds of statements that make Chiefer look 100% right |
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Rearviewmirror
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Location: Koch Arena. Ryknowssd makes BAD sigs
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Chiefer wrote: | | bigschmadt00 wrote: |
I think DT probably meant "prospect" and not "player." Of course you would give up the farm for a Manning is his prime type of player, but do you give that up for a guy who is totally unproven at the NFL level? Plenty of sure things have not panned out, and that is why it's not a smart move to give up boat loads of draft picks for one unproven prospect. |
If you think he can be the next Great QB, lead your franchise for a decade and lead you to Super Bowl victories. Then that's a hell yes.
When was the last time we drafted a first round QB? Or won a Super Bowl? Taking chances is something we've never done and look where its got us, Zero playoff success in 20 years and an overall mediocre team since the 80s. |
Exactly. What's the worst that can happen? We suck for 5 more years like we have for the past 40? Who cares. If it truly is all about winning the super bowl with the core of this team there is no reason to not package a bunch of picks to get Luck/Griffin
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DT58_lives_on
Joined: 04 Jan 2007
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Location: St. Cloud, MN
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | You wouldn't give up the entire farm for Peyton Manning in his prime? |
I would, but honestly calling RGIII the next Manning boarders on Linsanity. RGIII does have questions, let's not pretend he is a prototypical best pick in the draft top QB prospect ever here guys. He's not even the best QB in his draft class.
And the "core" of the team won't stay young forever, and you can't simply fill a team with FA acquisitions every year.
I'm torn on trading Bowe, and I'm against trading more than 2 first rounders for the guy. How do you know that 2 years from now the honest to god best QB ever hasn't developed? I understand that in order to get big rewards you have to take some risks. I just can't see that many picks for one player. Different position, but how did the Herschel Walker trade work out for Minnesota? Or the Ricky Williams trade for the Saints? I would go as far as to say I'd trade our first, second and fifth this year and a first and conditional 3rd/4th next year. But once you start getting three years out trading away draft picks it begins to seem crazy...who are we the Raiders?
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Rearviewmirror
Joined: 24 Jan 2009
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Location: Koch Arena. Ryknowssd makes BAD sigs
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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| DT58_lives_on wrote: | | Quote: | | You wouldn't give up the entire farm for Peyton Manning in his prime? |
I would, but honestly calling RGIII the next Manning boarders on Linsanity. RGIII does have questions, let's not pretend he is a prototypical best pick in the draft top QB prospect ever here guys. He's not even the best QB in his draft class.
He is in my opinion. Way better upside than Luck. Stronger arm and better athleticism. As to his questions: Just watch him in interviews, see him discuss football (the interview with Mooch was awesome). He's incredibly smart. I don't think it will take any time at all for him to pick up and learn a playbook. He clearly has a great work ethic.
And the "core" of the team won't stay young forever, and you can't simply fill a team with FA acquisitions every year.
Which is why we need to get a QB NOW
I'm torn on trading Bowe, and I'm against trading more than 2 first rounders for the guy. How do you know that 2 years from now the honest to god best QB ever hasn't developed? I understand that in order to get big rewards you have to take some risks. I just can't see that many picks for one player. Different position, but how did the Herschel Walker trade work out for Minnesota? Or the Ricky Williams trade for the Saints? I would go as far as to say I'd trade our first, second and fifth this year and a first and conditional 3rd/4th next year. But once you start getting three years out trading away draft picks it begins to seem crazy...who are we the Raiders? |
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DT58_lives_on
Joined: 04 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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Look I like RGIII, and honestly I think he'll be good. I just can't justify trading up to 8 picks for the guy. And everyone is arguing against Bowe but saying we should trade away all those picks instead. Why not save picks trade Bowe and draft a WR next year or sign one of the big name FAs? Just as good of a scenario.
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