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Rick Spielman's Yute Movement
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disaacs


Joined: 13 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zephiel wrote:
Could go with only two as well.


That's not going to happen. That's just Spielman Spin. Unless something dramatically changes, I expect Rosenfels to be re-signed as the #3 QB.
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vike daddy


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

an extremely good analysis of Spielman, his NFL record of management, and his successes and shortcomings with the Viking organization:

http://www.twincities.com/vikings/ci_19996438
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Zephiel


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great article VD. One interesting thing in there was that Spielman didn't want Favre back in 2010. That's crazy to me, I thought it was a foregone conclusion in 2010 that if Favre wanted to come back, he'd come back. Wow.
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Kellerman


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice article. One point of critique though:

The article seemed to imply that Spielman isn't quite as good at scouting middle to late draft prospects, and this hurt the Vikings roster.

When it comes to the scouting of the ''average'' prospect, not the the clear-cut talent, it's a crap shoot. In every single sport btw, not just am. football. For every hit, there are dozens of misses. If you look at the Packers and the Patriots over the years, they exemplify this. The reason they are built for the future is not because they scout so much better, but they are committed to building through the draft. Gathering plenty of picks to increase the chances of hitting a winner, while allowing young players to develop for a few years.

The Vikings, in the past, were a totally different football team. Much more focussed on free agency, not willing to take a step back in year 1, and two forward in year 2.

If the Vikings want to get back to being relevant, they need to get lot's of picks, and give them time to develop. If Spielman is a smart guy he'll realize that the key to the draft is quantity, not so much quality. Because who really knows what young players will be like in 2-3 years?

Find me one scout/analyst that consistently hits on middle to late round picks and I'll show you the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.
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PrplChilPill


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kellerman wrote:
Nice article. One point of critique though:

The article seemed to imply that Spielman isn't quite as good at scouting middle to late draft prospects, and this hurt the Vikings roster.

When it comes to the scouting of the ''average'' prospect, not the the clear-cut talent, it's a crap shoot. In every single sport btw, not just am. football. For every hit, there are dozens of misses. If you look at the Packers and the Patriots over the years, they exemplify this. The reason they are built for the future is not because they scout so much better, but they are committed to building through the draft. Gathering plenty of picks to increase the chances of hitting a winner, while allowing young players to develop for a few years.

The Vikings, in the past, were a totally different football team. Much more focussed on free agency, not willing to take a step back in year 1, and two forward in year 2.

If the Vikings want to get back to being relevant, they need to get lot's of picks, and give them time to develop. If Spielman is a smart guy he'll realize that the key to the draft is quantity, not so much quality. Because who really knows what young players will be like in 2-3 years?

Find me one scout/analyst that consistently hits on middle to late round picks and I'll show you the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.


Again, you guys keep putting up this false idol of "consistently hits on late round picks", that no one is asking for, that no one is criticizing him for, but his defenders keep putting it up as a false standard. We are asking for a major surprise every once in a while (like Colston, for example), and consistency in rounds 1-3.
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vike daddy


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PrplChilPill wrote:
Again, you guys keep putting up this false idol of "consistently hits on late round picks", that no one is asking for, that no one is criticizing him for, but his defenders keep putting it up as a false standard.

the article cited did just that, as a criticism that he does not. others are responding to that point.
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PrplChilPill


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vike daddy wrote:
PrplChilPill wrote:
Again, you guys keep putting up this false idol of "consistently hits on late round picks", that no one is asking for, that no one is criticizing him for, but his defenders keep putting it up as a false standard.

the article cited did just that, as a criticism that he does not. others are responding to that point.


That line was from an NFL scout. The article wasn't about that. It was one line, and it was from a professional, NFL scout.

Actually, the line didn't say find players consistently. It said:

he's not really known for his talent evaluation, whether he can consistently find the redeeming value in players and looking beyond the athleticism to find those steals in the mid- to late rounds. That list isn't long, though."

It asked him to consistently find value in the late rounds, and find those steals in the mid to late rounds. No place in that article did it say he should do it year after year, every year.
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Kellerman


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PrplChilPill wrote:
vike daddy wrote:
PrplChilPill wrote:
Again, you guys keep putting up this false idol of "consistently hits on late round picks", that no one is asking for, that no one is criticizing him for, but his defenders keep putting it up as a false standard.

the article cited did just that, as a criticism that he does not. others are responding to that point.


That line was from an NFL scout. The article wasn't about that. It was one line, and it was from a professional, NFL scout.

Actually, the line didn't say find players consistently. It said:

he's not really known for his talent evaluation, whether he can consistently find the redeeming value in players and looking beyond the athleticism to find those steals in the mid- to late rounds. That list isn't long, though."

It asked him to consistently find value in the late rounds, and find those steals in the mid to late rounds. No place in that article did it say he should do it year after year, every year.


Please refresh my english vocab, what does this word mean again?
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PrplChilPill


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Consistently find value =/= consistently find starters. value=/=starters or stars.

Nor does it say consistently find steals. The consistently word only applies to value players, not the second clause in the sentence.

It was also ONE SENTENCE in a long article. It was also uttered by a professional NFL scout, not some random fan.

Either way, doesn't matter. What matters is if he picks well, rounds 1-7, and the team gets better or not. I have not seen sufficient evidence one way or the other to know for sure or not yet. Didn't like last year's draft much at all. The team was horrible last year, and not one rookie shined, despite massive, gaping holes on the roster, not one rookie shined. Hopefully this year that changes.
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Kellerman


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The point I'm trying to get across here is that finding consistent value late in the draft is an impossible standard, because no team in the NFL does that.

Drafting or scouting the large grey mass of average players is a crapshoot. The terms ''consistency'' and ''late round pick'' just don't mesh. What I want is a GM who considers the odds, loads up on lottery picks and lets the odds work for him.

The fact that the last batch of rookies didn't have an impact yet is irrelevant to be frank. Teams like the Packers and Patriots, who everyone wants to mimic, are fine with waiting a year or two on their draft picks.
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kellerman wrote:
The point I'm trying to get across here is that finding consistent value late in the draft is an impossible standard, because no team in the NFL does that.

Drafting or scouting the large grey mass of average players is a crapshoot. The terms ''consistency'' and ''late round pick'' just don't mesh. What I want is a GM who considers the odds, loads up on lottery picks and lets the odds work for him.

The fact that the last batch of rookies didn't have an impact yet is irrelevant to be frank. Teams like the Packers and Patriots, who everyone wants to mimic, are fine with waiting a year or two on their draft picks.


Certainly helps with teams like the Pats/Packers who have top 3 QBs and incredible coaching staffs. Its much easier for those teams to plug in late round picks and have more success drafting late round players. Perhaps its not that MN is poor at drafting late round talent, maybe they just havent had the coaching staff to develop that talent. As long as MN can consistently get starters in the first 2 rounds, and good backups at worst in rds 3 and 4, those late round picks become less significant. My issue, the team has squandered its 3rd and 4th round picks the past 5 years or so. Only a few players stand out in Griffen, Edwards and Robison who have actually exceeded expectations of where they were drafted. Overall, there needs to be more consistency in rd 3, where there really hasnt been a single notable player drafted, though the team didnt have a 3rd rd pick in 06, 08, 10, 11. In the third round, Mn has taken McCauley (07), Allen (09). Pretty terrible, Mn seems more likely to trade that pick away than actually use it on a player.
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vike daddy


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vikings cornerback Antoine Winfield looked around during the teamís June minicamp and guessed that he knew, at most, 25 of the 90 players on the field that day. But the 35-year-old veteran wasnít complaining or longing for more of the faces from last season. A 9-23 freefall since the teamís NFC Championship Game loss in January of 2010 has Winfield, and others, looking forward to seeing what the next generation of young Vikings can deliver.

Winfield: ďI think itís good, considering we were 3-13 last season. We canít do much worse. Young guys bring energy.Ē

http://min.scout.com/2/1198902.html
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vike daddy


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yutes.

the team has a lot of yutes now.
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Klomp


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 12:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vike daddy wrote:
yutes.

the team has a lot of yutes now.


At least they're not 'Yotes!
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Avg. age for an offensive player - 25.29 (Median = 25)
Avg. age for an offensive starter w/Jenkins (2 WR/2 TE set) - 25.73 (Median = 26)
Offensive players over 29 years old - 2

Avg. age for a defensive player - 25.78 (Median = 25)
Avg. age for a defensive starter w/Winfield - (4 DL / 3 LBs) - 27.73 (Median = 27)
Defensive players over 29 years old - 3

Total average age (54 players not including Simpson) - 25.55 (Median = 25)
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