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ReggieCamp
Joined: 06 Dec 2006
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Location: Canonsburg, PA
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 Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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^^^
That looks like all the reasons you hate Shurmur. That's a bit of a stray from the original topic. The original topic was: will Shurmur and Childress adjust their preferences in the WCO to accommodate someone like RG3. I stated that yes, they will, since they already did for guys like McNabb.
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bruceb
Joined: 15 Dec 2006
Posts: 5320
Location: Rocky River, OH
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| Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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| ReggieCamp wrote: | ^^^
That looks like all the reasons you hate Shurmur. That's a bit of a stray from the original topic. The original topic was: will Shurmur and Childress adjust their preferences in the WCO to accommodate someone like RG3. I stated that yes, they will, since they already did for guys like McNabb. |
No doubt about it: I don't like Shurmur at all. The only things that recommended Shurmur as the choice for HC was that he is a LaMonte client and that his dad was a coach under Holmgren in GB. In fact, I think that Holmgren and Shurmur are putzes, for sure, that Heckert's only saving grace is that he so far has selected some good (no great) players in two drafts he has guided, and that Childress is here because it was the only seven-figure job he, a former HC, could get is on an incestuous staff loaded with LaMonte clients, and questionably, from an ethics standpoint, guided by one (the Big Sh__).
That having been said not really so much a stray. The original topic begs the question of how committed they are to a "pure" WCO?
Shurmur showed O series after series, game after game, ad nauseam, that he is a believer in a pure WCO, except for the fact that he didn't quite seem to get that it starts beyond the line of scrimmage.
Holmgren has given every indication that he, too, is a true believer.
Heckert doesn't matter...he doesn't scheme offenses or call plays.
Childress...eh...probably his last (LaMonte's for him) big payday.
If they are true believers in the "pure" form of the WCO, Griffin might or might not fit.
That is the question mark Mayock raised, and that the original post was based on.
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BooyaCS
Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Posts: 6087
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| Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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| bruceb wrote: | | ReggieCamp wrote: | ^^^
That looks like all the reasons you hate Shurmur. That's a bit of a stray from the original topic. The original topic was: will Shurmur and Childress adjust their preferences in the WCO to accommodate someone like RG3. I stated that yes, they will, since they already did for guys like McNabb. |
No doubt about it: I don't like Shurmur at all. The only things that recommended Shurmur as the choice for HC was that he is a LaMonte client and that his dad was a coach under Holmgren in GB. In fact, I think that Holmgren and Shurmur are putzes, for sure, that Heckert's only saving grace is that he so far has selected some good (no great) players in two drafts he has guided, and that Childress is here because it was the only seven-figure job he, a former HC, could get is on an incestuous staff loaded with LaMonte clients, and questionably, from an ethics standpoint, guided by one (the Big Sh__).
That having been said not really so much a stray. The original topic begs the question of how committed they are to a "pure" WCO?
Shurmur showed O series after series, game after game, ad nauseam, that he is a believer in a pure WCO, except for the fact that he didn't quite seem to get that it starts beyond the line of scrimmage.
Holmgren has given every indication that he, too, is a true believer.
Heckert doesn't matter...he doesn't scheme offenses or call plays.
Childress...eh...probably his last (LaMonte's for him) big payday.
If they are true believers in the "pure" form of the WCO, Griffin might or might not fit.
That is the question mark Mayock raised, and that the original post was based on. |
Shurmur only showed the offense that he did because of the limitations of his players on offense. What good are more creative/exotic plays going to do if you cannot execute the simple ones?
Also bruce welcome to the business world it is not what you know but who you know. I can go on a long diatribe on that but I won't (PM if you want to hear it).
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bruceb
Joined: 15 Dec 2006
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Location: Rocky River, OH
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| Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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An aside: I suffered the company of a gaggle of PIT fans on my trip this week. FYI: They thought Holmgren and his/LaMonte's entourage, and the lack of ethics implicit and explicit (to all except those who have drunk the Kool-Aid) in it is laughable.
btw: They wish we were better/good again so that it would be a fight.
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BooyaCS
Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Posts: 6087
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| Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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| bruceb wrote: | An aside: I suffered the company of a gaggle of PIT fans on my trip this week. FYI: They thought Holmgren and his/LaMonte's entourage, and the lack of ethics implicit and explicit (to all except those who have drunk the Kool-Aid) in it is laughable.
btw: They wish we were better/good again so that it would be a fight. |
Problem 1 why were you with PIT Fans?
Problem 2: did you not drink enough (Alcohol not Kool-aid)
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mistakebytehlak
Joined: 20 Nov 2005
Posts: 38638
Location: Brooklyn, NY
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| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:30 am Post subject: |
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| bruceb wrote: | | ReggieCamp wrote: | | bruceb wrote: | To get back on topic, again, the post and quotes offered questioned whether H&H&S are intractable on their collective notion of the WCO.
If they are, there are real questions as to whether Griffin is a fit. |
bruce, what's your response to this post from a couple pages back?
| ReggieCamp wrote: | I still fail to see how Shurmur "failed to adjust the system to the players.". More shotgun? That's it? And by the way, we did run lots more shotgun as the season went on. Scheme can only do so much to cover up talent problems.
As far as RG3, both our HC and OC have extensive experience running a successful WCO with someone who's almost identical to RG3: Donovan McNabb. Hell, Childress even made it work with Tarvaris Jackson. I have no doubts that we'll do what we need to do to score more points. |
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Sorry for not responding. I was out of town on business for 6 days.
Here's my response:
Shurmur's play calls consistently were for khara. If he is an offensive genius, I and many people I know are geniuses in our callings/fields.
More shotguns? When, after Colt got his clock cleaned?
IND and NE have made the shotgun/hurry up staples of their offenses. Oh, but that would have required him to think quickly. Hell, he didn't even know who was on the field when he ran Alex Smith near the goal line. Think quickly?...how about even know what was going on?
Talent problems? And then some, all across the board. Anyone who wants to hang that all on McCoy probably will have a great deal of trouble dealing with life...because they effectively are deaf, dumb and blind. Pathetic play calls, dropped passes in the receivers' hands/guts, Pashos, etc.
When Colt got smoked by Harrison, anyone who saw the hit never even would have considered putting him back in. Shurmur no doubt was in over his head, but he might well just be an idiot, too...consider it.
I am not interested in a "successful WCO". I want to win a sausage.
"Successful" and "(making) it work" did not produce anything but teams that won a lot of games and folded. I want a Super Bowl win from this team in this lifetime.
There...did I cover it? |
you mean on the play where he had plenty of time to get rid of the ball, rolled left (to joe thomas' side) and was borderline close to being a runner before getting hit by James Harrison?
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bruceb
Joined: 15 Dec 2006
Posts: 5320
Location: Rocky River, OH
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| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:31 am Post subject: |
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| mistakebytehlak wrote: | | bruceb wrote: | | ReggieCamp wrote: | | bruceb wrote: | To get back on topic, again, the post and quotes offered questioned whether H&H&S are intractable on their collective notion of the WCO.
If they are, there are real questions as to whether Griffin is a fit. |
bruce, what's your response to this post from a couple pages back?
| ReggieCamp wrote: | I still fail to see how Shurmur "failed to adjust the system to the players.". More shotgun? That's it? And by the way, we did run lots more shotgun as the season went on. Scheme can only do so much to cover up talent problems.
As far as RG3, both our HC and OC have extensive experience running a successful WCO with someone who's almost identical to RG3: Donovan McNabb. Hell, Childress even made it work with Tarvaris Jackson. I have no doubts that we'll do what we need to do to score more points. |
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Sorry for not responding. I was out of town on business for 6 days.
Here's my response:
Shurmur's play calls consistently were for khara. If he is an offensive genius, I and many people I know are geniuses in our callings/fields.
More shotguns? When, after Colt got his clock cleaned?
IND and NE have made the shotgun/hurry up staples of their offenses. Oh, but that would have required him to think quickly. Hell, he didn't even know who was on the field when he ran Alex Smith near the goal line. Think quickly?...how about even know what was going on?
Talent problems? And then some, all across the board. Anyone who wants to hang that all on McCoy probably will have a great deal of trouble dealing with life...because they effectively are deaf, dumb and blind. Pathetic play calls, dropped passes in the receivers' hands/guts, Pashos, etc.
When Colt got smoked by Harrison, anyone who saw the hit never even would have considered putting him back in. Shurmur no doubt was in over his head, but he might well just be an idiot, too...consider it.
I am not interested in a "successful WCO". I want to win a sausage.
"Successful" and "(making) it work" did not produce anything but teams that won a lot of games and folded. I want a Super Bowl win from this team in this lifetime.
There...did I cover it? |
you mean on the play where he had plenty of time to get rid of the ball, rolled left (to joe thomas' side) and was borderline close to being a runner before getting hit by James Harrison? |
The operative word is: "borderline". And that's not what it even was...he had thrown the ball, for a pretty nice gain I might add.
I seem to recall that Harrison got suspended for that hit, too.
You otherwise have a point, yes?
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brownsfan214
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
Posts: 1024
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| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:49 am Post subject: |
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| Onizuka wrote: | | brownsfan214 wrote: | 1. I love how all of you defending Colt are putting him into the same category and potential level of Joe Montana. Yes he may have had similiar traits but that doesnt mean he is the same player or could be. Thats the same logic that got Raiders screw with JamRus because he had similiar traits to John Elway, and countless others.
2. Lot of people love to defend Colt on this reason BUT so many love to label Tim Couch as a HUGE bust... Colt has a FAR surperior team than Couch did, and he played better! Just saying to all of those who believe Couch was a bust, Colt plays worse than him with a better team. |
Your posts are starting to fall apart and your basically stating one thing in one posts and the complete opposite in the another post...
1. Aren't you always comparing RG3 to Vick (but claim he is better) and yelling "Look what Newton did for the Panthers!" So your allowed to make comparisons but when we do it...were wrong? I'll agree with Rabid in stating that you are full of yourself...
2. I'll give you that the Browns of 2011 might of had the better talent (slightly) than what Couch had to work with...but you act like the Browns of 2011 were so talented overall...you also forget to mention that Colt was expected to run an entirely new offensive system with no one on offense having any experience...the lock out hurt the Browns...and having HC play OC as well...the Browns failed as a team, its that simple. Those of us that state we wouldn't mind giving Colt another year are not exactly against whatever H&H decide to do...
It's funny that your willing to give up on Colt just because he was selected in the 3rd round...[b]but you were all for giving DA [/b]and BQ more time? You even said you still believe JaMarcus Russell is a good QB...just be consistent and stick to your "I want RG3 because he is the flavor of the month" since all your posts conflict one another.... |
1. I have put up posts that may have conflicted this but the most important thing I have emphasize is his physical abilities, not so much the comparisons. He has far more talent than Colt, that is what I have been(or at least trying in my head) to speak about, and not to mention far more potential of being a franchise Qb.
2. Fail. Couch had no one to speak of. Im not saying that this 2011 Browns team was really talented, but 1999 Browns sucked and was an embarrassment.
3. I love DA but that last time I checked he was a ..... 6th rounder. It has little to do about the rounds, it has to do with the potential and the excitement that they bring. Not to mention you can see that Colt is lost and doesnt know what the heck is going on. Its either you got it or you dont, and Colt doesnt have any of the good things. |
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duke2056
Joined: 21 Feb 2005
Posts: 7730
Location: Cleveland area
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| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:34 am Post subject: |
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| RabidDawgs wrote: | | brownsfan214 wrote: | Well until then.....
"With the 4th pick of the NFL draft, the Browns select...
Robert Griffin III, Quarterback, Baylor"
AND BROWNS NATION CRIES "HOORAY!"
RG3>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>colt |
and as far as all that 50 yards with a flick of a wrist mumbo jumbo you posted earlier, so what, J. Russell could do that too, along with other countless busts broken down along the side of the highway of the history of the NFL. Colt still has TONS of potential (I just hope last year didn't completely destroy it due to the inept coaching and lack of talent around him). This guy is the winningest QB in college football history, we need to give him a fair chance.
This guy measures up physically and mentally great side by side with the best WCO QB that ever lived (Joe Montana), WE NEED TO GIVE HIM A FAIR CHANCE!!!!
I don't see why people don't get that. |
You do realize that even if we draft a QB, Colt will have EVERY opportunity to be the starter. But if we did draft RG3 and RG3 were to start right away, that would mean that he totally blew Colt out of the water in the offseason.
So in your opinion, how much FAIL will Colt have to have in 2012 for you to realize he sucks? Or do you think he should have all of 2012 and all of 2013 no matter what happens?
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Cam Newton's dad accepts 200k for talking Cam into attending the draft, but Cam denies any knowledge of his dad getting money. |
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Estonianzulu
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 19735
Location: Middle of Nowhere VA
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| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:11 am Post subject: |
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| bruceb wrote: | An aside: I suffered the company of a gaggle of PIT fans on my trip this week. FYI: They thought Holmgren and his/LaMonte's entourage, and the lack of ethics implicit and explicit (to all except those who have drunk the Kool-Aid) in it is laughable.
btw: They wish we were better/good again so that it would be a fight. |
Their quarterback is Big Ben. If they make fun of any other team's ethics then they are hypocrites.
If H&H and crew get fired, do they get more money for LaMonte than if they all got contract extensions? I ask this because you have the obsessive belief that its all about getting LaMonte more money.
And what the heck is a "Pure" WCO anyway? The one Bill Walsh ran in Cincinnati in the 1970's? Yeah no, we aren't runnign that.
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