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coordinator0
Joined: 18 Jan 2008
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 Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Mayock is #2 for me in terms of draft analysis. The first guy I go to is Scott Wright. Most of the time they have similar opinions on the top players but right now they're pretty far apart on Burfict. He's certainly a risky prospect. I'm still inclined to want him above most of the other guys but we'll have to see what happens at the combine. He'll do well in the drills but I'm more interested in seeing how he does in the interviews, if any information is released about that. |
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diamondbull424
Joined: 02 Dec 2007
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Location: Baltimore, MD
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| Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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| RavensfanRD wrote: | Mike Mayock on y'all boy, Vontaze.
Link
Very interesting to say the least. I believe in Mayock's analysis than any of the others, so I'm very interested in this new development. |
Well I tend to trust Mayock's observations for the most part (though I disagree with him on Glenn).
I'd agree that Burfict probably isn't a surefire first round pick like many are pegging him to be. He's fallen in mocks for a reason and as teams continue to break down his play from the two previous seasons they'll begin to see less "potential" and more "why didn't he improve on that in year 3". Some of this could be a coaching issue. There's no way of knowing just how good the current crop of coaches at Arizona are in terms of their LB coaching prowess. This is why I said somewhere on these forums that if Burfict has any hope of going in the first round, he'll have to prove to NFL talent evaluators that he's a VERY coachable player. If not, I think on talent/production alone, he should fall to our pick in the 2nd round.
I just think teams in the 2nd will feel more comfortable selecting more productive/similar athletes like Dont'a Hightower (Bama), Zach Brown (UCar), LaVonte David (Nebraska), Audie Cole (NC State), Bobby Wagner (Utah State), and perhaps even Emmanuel Acho could end up leap frogging Burfict come draft time (though I doubt it). So I think by our pick in the 2nd round we could end up having our choice of either Wagner/Cole or Burfict. And right now I'm inclined to pick Wagner over Burfict. But then again, Wagner's one of my favorite players in this draft along with Cordy Glenn and Kevin Zeitler.
Wagner's not the athlete of some of the other guys on that list, but he reminds me a lot of Suggs one tape- in terms of his athleticism. While Burfict would be the better athlete and splash playmaker, Wagner would give us the most fundamentally sound-pro ready ILB in this draft class IMO.
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STrid
Joined: 20 Nov 2009
Posts: 976
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
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| Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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| drd23 wrote: | | RavensfanRD wrote: | Mike Mayock on y'all boy, Vontaze.
Link
Very interesting to say the least. I believe in Mayock's analysis than any of the others, so I'm very interested in this new development. |
I'd love to know what film he watched because there is a huge difference between what he did in 2010 and 2011
(I dont mean that I think he is wrong, its just that without knowing what games he watched, he could be talking entirely about 2011 when people mocking Burfict to us in the 1st are doing so based on what he did in 2009/10 and the potential he showed in those 2 years) |
The thing is that you are only as good as your last few displays, and I think that is Mayock's thought process as well. You could perhaps excuse it if he had played poorly for only a couple of games, but he played super poor for just about all the games this season. To me it looks like Burfict has regressed big time, which can happen to young athletes if they are not working hard enough or stay committed. He is obviously still as physical as before, but something is obviously wrong with his play and it looks like it's the mental aspect of things where he has really taken a step back this year.
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DontTazeMeBro
Joined: 20 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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I'm back on the Burfict bandwagon. I don't know why his play seemed to decline in 2011. But I love his intensity and I get the impression from watching him on the field and in interviews that he is a smart kid who loves football. His size and athetic ability is almost unmatched. I like his read and react skills. Running around blockers and all that is something I think can be easilly fixed with coaching. And Ngata and Cody do a great job keeping our linebackers clean anyway.
A pipe dream for sure. But with Burfict's decline, how badass would it be if we somehow managed to get Upshaw and Burfict?
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STrid
Joined: 20 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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| diamondbull424 wrote: | | RavensfanRD wrote: | Mike Mayock on y'all boy, Vontaze.
Link
Very interesting to say the least. I believe in Mayock's analysis than any of the others, so I'm very interested in this new development. |
Well I tend to trust Mayock's observations for the most part (though I disagree with him on Glenn).
I'd agree that Burfict probably isn't a surefire first round pick like many are pegging him to be. He's fallen in mocks for a reason and as teams continue to break down his play from the two previous seasons they'll begin to see less "potential" and more "why didn't he improve on that in year 3". Some of this could be a coaching issue. There's no way of knowing just how good the current crop of coaches at Arizona are in terms of their LB coaching prowess. This is why I said somewhere on these forums that if Burfict has any hope of going in the first round, he'll have to prove to NFL talent evaluators that he's a VERY coachable player. If not, I think on talent/production alone, he should fall to our pick in the 2nd round.
I just think teams in the 2nd will feel more comfortable selecting more productive/similar athletes like Dont'a Hightower (Bama), Zach Brown (UCar), LaVonte David (Nebraska), Audie Cole (NC State), Bobby Wagner (Utah State), and perhaps even Emmanuel Acho could end up leap frogging Burfict come draft time (though I doubt it). So I think by our pick in the 2nd round we could end up having our choice of either Wagner/Cole or Burfict. And right now I'm inclined to pick Wagner over Burfict. But then again, Wagner's one of my favorite players in this draft along with Cordy Glenn and Kevin Zeitler.
Wagner's not the athlete of some of the other guys on that list, but he reminds me a lot of Suggs one tape- in terms of his athleticism. While Burfict would be the better athlete and splash playmaker, Wagner would give us the most fundamentally sound-pro ready ILB in this draft class IMO. |
I tend to agree with you DB. I think first of all it comes down to how impressive his interviews are because everybody know what he can do physically, it's really the mental aspect of his play that is in question. Second of all I think how high he goes depends on if some coach will look at him at some sort of prestige project to coach up. I think it's very likely that a coach who is a little full of himself thinks that he can coach Burfit into becoming the next Ray Lewis or something.
With that said I'd still be willing to take a gamble on him in the middle of the third round even though I think his overall talent, if he doesn't evolve much more than this is, is only enough for about 4th or 5th round. A lot of players get by on being better athletes than everybody else in College and they usually bust in the NFL, but Burfict hasn't even been able to dominate despite being such a gifted athlete which tells me something about his mental make-up.
But as I said if the coaches feel like that can improve on him then the middle of the 3rd seems about right (granted I'm not a big fan of drafting ILB's high).
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Flaccomania
Joined: 12 Aug 2008
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| Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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I wouldn't doubt we're that team with Ted Monachino having ASU ties and being promoted to LB coach.
Then again, if it is an attitude problem, we'll know better than anyone with our ties back to ASU to get a "real" opinion on him.
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diamondbull424
Joined: 02 Dec 2007
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Location: Baltimore, MD
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| Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Flaccomania wrote: | I wouldn't doubt we're that team with Ted Monachino having ASU ties and being promoted to LB coach.
Then again, if it is an attitude problem, we'll know better than anyone with our ties back to ASU to get a "real" opinion on him. |
This info could be definitely end up being helpful if the Ravens do end up selecting Burfict in on the 1st or 2nd day. If Ozzie takes Burfict in the those rounds it means he trusts Burfict to develop and has heard enough good things from the AZ coaches to greenlight this selection. If Burfict is one of those gifted players that we see fall in the draft, then we'll know why.
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drd23
Joined: 26 Oct 2010
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Location: Melbourne, Australia
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| Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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| DontTazeMeBro wrote: | | A pipe dream for sure. But with Burfict's decline, how badass would it be if we somehow managed to get Upshaw and Burfict? |
I'd rather we got an OL in the 1st if its not Burfict, but Upshaw is probably the ideal player to replace JJ
| Flaccomania wrote: | I wouldn't doubt we're that team with Ted Monachino having ASU ties and being promoted to LB coach.
Then again, if it is an attitude problem, we'll know better than anyone with our ties back to ASU to get a "real" opinion on him. |
Agreed. Our connections to ASU can only help us get a better read on why it was that Burfict performed the way he did last season.
| coordinator0 wrote: | | Mayock is #2 for me in terms of draft analysis. The first guy I go to is Scott Wright. Most of the time they have similar opinions on the top players but right now they're pretty far apart on Burfict. |
| diamondbull424 wrote: | | Well I tend to trust Mayock's observations for the most part (though I disagree with him on Glenn). |
Mayock is certainly right up with the best talent evaluators in the media/on the internet, but there are some positions that I dont think he has a great handle on - OL is one in particular that springs to mind.
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SnA ExclusiVe
Joined: 01 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:17 am Post subject: |
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I wouldn't be opposed to using our 1st rounder on an offensive lineman and then hopefully get our 2nd rounder to get Burfict, use our 3rd to get a WR or another linebacker or OL.
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BareYourTeeth
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| Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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Unless there's a prospect simply too good too pass up, for example Michael Floyd, I'm hoping we trade back at this point. This class is just so deep in the first two-three rounds.
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diamondbull424
Joined: 02 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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| BareYourTeeth wrote: | | Unless there's a prospect simply too good too pass up, for example Michael Floyd, I'm hoping we trade back at this point. This class is just so deep in the first two-three rounds. |
I agree with this. I just don't see too many scenarios where we'll see an obvious BPA type. But I'd expand my list to Mike Floyd and Cordy Glenn. Other than that, I'd trade down. And while I like Glenn, if we get a good deal for a trade back in the 2nd, I'd jump because I like Zeitler nearly just as much as Glenn- the only difference is I think Glenn can actually succeed at LT in the NFL, but as OGs, I like them very similarly.
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coordinator0
Joined: 18 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| I really don't want to see Glenn at LT in the NFL. Sure you can project him there but if his play from this past season is any indication then I'd much rather keep him in at his natural LG position. I mean Glenn wasn't terrible at LT but he was pretty average while at LG he was elite. If Georgia kept him there this season I would expect he would would easily be right up there with DeCastro. Still would take him if we lost Grubbs, but I think we'll be able to keep him. |
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diamondbull424
Joined: 02 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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| coordinator0 wrote: | | I really don't want to see Glenn at LT in the NFL. Sure you can project him there but if his play from this past season is any indication then I'd much rather keep him in at his natural LG position. I mean Glenn wasn't terrible at LT but he was pretty average while at LG he was elite. If Georgia kept him there this season I would expect he would would easily be right up there with DeCastro. Still would take him if we lost Grubbs, but I think we'll be able to keep him. |
You think we'll be able to keep Grubbs? What makes you confident in this? Gut feeling or have you seen something on this.
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coordinator0
Joined: 18 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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| diamondbull424 wrote: | | You think we'll be able to keep Grubbs? What makes you confident in this? Gut feeling or have you seen something on this. |
The only contract that should hinder us in our attempt to keep Grubbs is the one we're going to give Rice. If Flacco gets a new deal it won't affect anything until after next season since it will be an extension. I'm assuming we'll be able to keep Webb with just the 1st round tender but if we have to match an offer that would hurt. Keeping Grubbs will probably mean letting Johnson and/or Redding walk but I'm fine with that and I think the team will be too. Especially Redding, he's not going to be hard to replace.
Of course what Grubbs wants will also play a big part in our ability to keep him but I'm just going to assume he wants something similar to what Yanda got last year. You have to factor in what we plan to do with guys in the future as well (Webb will need a new contract next year at the latest, he's the only one that comes to mind for next season though) but I'd rather sign Grubbs to a ~$7 mil. a year contract for the next 5 years rather than singing Johnson to a ~ $5 mil. contract for the next 3-4. I don't think the extra $2 mil. a year would hinder us much and Grubbs is a younger and more important player. |
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Flaccomania
Joined: 12 Aug 2008
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Location: Parkville, MD
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| Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:51 am Post subject: |
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| coordinator0 wrote: | | diamondbull424 wrote: | | You think we'll be able to keep Grubbs? What makes you confident in this? Gut feeling or have you seen something on this. |
The only contract that should hinder us in our attempt to keep Grubbs is the one we're going to give Rice. If Flacco gets a new deal it won't affect anything until after next season since it will be an extension. I'm assuming we'll be able to keep Webb with just the 1st round tender but if we have to match an offer that would hurt. Keeping Grubbs will probably mean letting Johnson and/or Redding walk but I'm fine with that and I think the team will be too. Especially Redding, he's not going to be hard to replace.
Of course what Grubbs wants will also play a big part in our ability to keep him but I'm just going to assume he wants something similar to what Yanda got last year. You have to factor in what we plan to do with guys in the future as well (Webb will need a new contract next year at the latest, he's the only one that comes to mind for next season though) but I'd rather sign Grubbs to a ~$7 mil. a year contract for the next 5 years rather than singing Johnson to a ~ $5 mil. contract for the next 3-4. I don't think the extra $2 mil. a year would hinder us much and Grubbs is a younger and more important player. |
Personally, I see both JJ and Grubbs walking. McClain too.
Rice's contract is going to be pretty hefty, Flacco too, Webb if he gets one will be hefty, etc. Though, like you said, if Flacco's doesn't take effect until next year and Webb possibly doesn't sign til next year, it will help us a lot as I believe that's when Ngata's deal takes a sharp decline in cap hit.
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