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| Eli or Ben? |
| Eli Manning |
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56% |
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| Ben Roethlisberger |
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43% |
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| Total Votes : 85 |
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E-Man
Joined: 11 May 2009
Posts: 1185
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 Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:25 am Post subject: |
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| BlaqOptic wrote: | | w4rrior723 wrote: | | BlaqOptic wrote: | | NYGFan101 wrote: | Big Ben is is incredibly overrated.
He gets labeled as "clutch" yet he's the main reason why needs to be so, so many times because he sh*ts the bed in the first 3 quarters. Hes crambles around like a chicken with it's head cut off when his OL is fine. Eli has a worse OL than him. Ben is a terrible pocket passer who makes crucial mistakes at times. Got carried to both his SB rings and always as the benefit of an elite defense and rushing game. He should have 4 rings by now. |
And yet his and Eli Manning statistics are virtually the same and Eli wasn't carried to his Super Bowls and is "clutch"? Nice try... If you're going to try and troll at least do it decently. |
hahaha
It's hard to choose one over the other at this point. Ben has been better overall when comparing careers, but Eli has been a slightly bigger part of his 2 SB runs than Ben was. |
That margin is very slight though...Ben was 49/72 for 680 Yards, 7 TDs and 1 Int in the first Super Bowl run prior to the Super Bowl vs Eli's 1st run of 72/119 for 854 Yards, 6 TDs and 1 Int. Now obviously Eli had the better 1st Super Bowl but Ben was very instrumental in the teams Super Bowl run and I hate how people overlook that.
As for the 2nd Super Bowl runs I'd take Eli easily... |
if these numbers are true, Eli had the same number of completions as Ben had attempts....if so, the margin is not that slight...although I will agree that Ben was instrumental in all the games before the Seattle debacle.
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NYGFan101
Joined: 22 Nov 2011
Posts: 723
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:37 am Post subject: |
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| E-Man wrote: | | BlaqOptic wrote: | | w4rrior723 wrote: | | BlaqOptic wrote: | | NYGFan101 wrote: | Big Ben is is incredibly overrated.
He gets labeled as "clutch" yet he's the main reason why needs to be so, so many times because he sh*ts the bed in the first 3 quarters. Hes crambles around like a chicken with it's head cut off when his OL is fine. Eli has a worse OL than him. Ben is a terrible pocket passer who makes crucial mistakes at times. Got carried to both his SB rings and always as the benefit of an elite defense and rushing game. He should have 4 rings by now. |
And yet his and Eli Manning statistics are virtually the same and Eli wasn't carried to his Super Bowls and is "clutch"? Nice try... If you're going to try and troll at least do it decently. |
hahaha
It's hard to choose one over the other at this point. Ben has been better overall when comparing careers, but Eli has been a slightly bigger part of his 2 SB runs than Ben was. |
That margin is very slight though...Ben was 49/72 for 680 Yards, 7 TDs and 1 Int in the first Super Bowl run prior to the Super Bowl vs Eli's 1st run of 72/119 for 854 Yards, 6 TDs and 1 Int. Now obviously Eli had the better 1st Super Bowl but Ben was very instrumental in the teams Super Bowl run and I hate how people overlook that.
As for the 2nd Super Bowl runs I'd take Eli easily... |
if these numbers are true, Eli had the same number of completions as Ben had attempts....if so, the margin is not that slight...although I will agree that Ben was instrumental in all the games before the Seattle debacle. |
Ben was a game manager in each of his SBs. |
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be WARE94
Joined: 22 Nov 2011
Posts: 1237
Location: Philadelphia
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 5:56 am Post subject: |
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| NYGFan101 wrote: | | E-Man wrote: | | BlaqOptic wrote: | | w4rrior723 wrote: | | BlaqOptic wrote: | | NYGFan101 wrote: | Big Ben is is incredibly overrated.
He gets labeled as "clutch" yet he's the main reason why needs to be so, so many times because he sh*ts the bed in the first 3 quarters. Hes crambles around like a chicken with it's head cut off when his OL is fine. Eli has a worse OL than him. Ben is a terrible pocket passer who makes crucial mistakes at times. Got carried to both his SB rings and always as the benefit of an elite defense and rushing game. He should have 4 rings by now. |
And yet his and Eli Manning statistics are virtually the same and Eli wasn't carried to his Super Bowls and is "clutch"? Nice try... If you're going to try and troll at least do it decently. |
hahaha
It's hard to choose one over the other at this point. Ben has been better overall when comparing careers, but Eli has been a slightly bigger part of his 2 SB runs than Ben was. |
That margin is very slight though...Ben was 49/72 for 680 Yards, 7 TDs and 1 Int in the first Super Bowl run prior to the Super Bowl vs Eli's 1st run of 72/119 for 854 Yards, 6 TDs and 1 Int. Now obviously Eli had the better 1st Super Bowl but Ben was very instrumental in the teams Super Bowl run and I hate how people overlook that.
As for the 2nd Super Bowl runs I'd take Eli easily... |
if these numbers are true, Eli had the same number of completions as Ben had attempts....if so, the margin is not that slight...although I will agree that Ben was instrumental in all the games before the Seattle debacle. |
Ben was a game manager in each of his SBs. |
you have to be a child
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[quote="Tzimisce"]Was Romo playing sarcastaball? | Plat wrote: | | "]i swear this guy be trolling |
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BlaqOptic
Joined: 14 Feb 2007
Posts: 25769
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| E-Man wrote: | | BlaqOptic wrote: | | w4rrior723 wrote: | | BlaqOptic wrote: | | NYGFan101 wrote: | Big Ben is is incredibly overrated.
He gets labeled as "clutch" yet he's the main reason why needs to be so, so many times because he sh*ts the bed in the first 3 quarters. Hes crambles around like a chicken with it's head cut off when his OL is fine. Eli has a worse OL than him. Ben is a terrible pocket passer who makes crucial mistakes at times. Got carried to both his SB rings and always as the benefit of an elite defense and rushing game. He should have 4 rings by now. |
And yet his and Eli Manning statistics are virtually the same and Eli wasn't carried to his Super Bowls and is "clutch"? Nice try... If you're going to try and troll at least do it decently. |
hahaha
It's hard to choose one over the other at this point. Ben has been better overall when comparing careers, but Eli has been a slightly bigger part of his 2 SB runs than Ben was. |
That margin is very slight though...Ben was 49/72 for 680 Yards, 7 TDs and 1 Int in the first Super Bowl run prior to the Super Bowl vs Eli's 1st run of 72/119 for 854 Yards, 6 TDs and 1 Int. Now obviously Eli had the better 1st Super Bowl but Ben was very instrumental in the teams Super Bowl run and I hate how people overlook that.
As for the 2nd Super Bowl runs I'd take Eli easily... |
if these numbers are true, Eli had the same number of completions as Ben had attempts....if so, the margin is not that slight...although I will agree that Ben was instrumental in all the games before the Seattle debacle. |
Somebody didn't read correctly. Those are Ben's 1st 3 games in his Super Bowl run because we already admitted his Super Bowl was inferior and thus I didn't include it to show people how ignorant they are belieiving Ben was carried to his 1st Super Bowl.
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| sayheykid wrote: | | Eksynyt wrote: | | Some people on here brag about the Seahawks having a defense...where is it? |
It's having a hard time concentrating. |
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LTF
Joined: 04 Aug 2010
Posts: 635
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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What were Eli's playoff numbers when he was 23 years old?
Quit blindly comparing stats. If Roethlisberger's first two SB appearances came when he was 27 and 31 like Eli, as opposed to 23 and 26 like Ben, they'd look a hell of a lot different too. Both are multiple champions, both have been incredibly clutch, and both have enjoyed a lot of success in two different situations. Leave it at that. |
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heart of a lion
Joined: 20 Jun 2009
Posts: 706
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | So what DO you base your ratings on? It takes two to make a completion, so can't use completion percentage, yards, QB rating, etc. because there is more than one person involved in completion. What if you are surrounded with WRs/TEs who can't get open, can't catch, have an offense more based on run than pass? |
I watch them play ? I never said that stats are ULTIMATE evaluator of players performance. Stats do matter, but are not all the picture. What Im saying is WINS are useless to rank one single player.
| Quote: | Go ahead and use what you want, but to discount wins in your evaluation, the ability to lead your team to victory, is ridiculous, IMO. You can have Rivers all you want. I'll take Ben and Eli all day, every day, over Rivers and his inflated stats.
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Is riddiculus because of what ? BC "QB is the most important position" ? "QB always carries his team, rest just contribute" ? "Media hypes QB most so he myst be a God" ? Its a TEAM sport. Its 40+ man game, not one man game.
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"Prooven winer"
"Top5 QB"
"Future Hall Of Famer"
190YPG 1TD 3INT 58COMP% 64QBR
...but he won those games.
Last edited by heart of a lion on Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:22 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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KingofSTATS
Joined: 29 Jan 2008
Posts: 7923
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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| heart of a lion wrote: | | Quote: | | So what DO you base your ratings on? It takes two to make a completion, so can't use completion percentage, yards, QB rating, etc. because there is more than one person involved in completion. What if you are surrounded with WRs/TEs who can't get open, can't catch, have an offense more based on run than pass? |
I watch them play ? I never said that stats are ULTIMATE evaluator of players performance. Stats do matter, but are not all the picture. What Im saying is WINS are useless to rank one single player.
| Quote: | Go ahead and use what you want, but to discount wins in your evaluation, the ability to lead your team to victory, is ridiculous, IMO. You can have Rivers all you want. I'll take Ben and Eli all day, every day, over Rivers and his inflated stats.
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Is riddiculus because of what ? BC "QB is the most important position" ? "QB always carries his team, rest just contribute" ? "Media hypes QB most so he myst be a God" ? Its a TEAM sport. Its 40+ man game, not one man game. |
Don't bother, people who don't have elite QB's don't know how to properly evaluate QB's and their play, skill set, impact or value. They have no leg to stand on in those critical criterias. So they leach off of team achievements... Talk about disrespecting a team to prop a player.
When you have 2 rings and there is an abundant amount more questions about you than answers, something is off.
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Ward4HOF
Joined: 11 Apr 2011
Posts: 2587
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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| heart of a lion wrote: | | Quote: | | So what DO you base your ratings on? It takes two to make a completion, so can't use completion percentage, yards, QB rating, etc. because there is more than one person involved in completion. What if you are surrounded with WRs/TEs who can't get open, can't catch, have an offense more based on run than pass? |
I watch them play ? I never said that stats are ULTIMATE evaluator of players performance. Stats do matter, but are not all the picture. What Im saying is WINS are useless to rank one single player.
| Quote: | Go ahead and use what you want, but to discount wins in your evaluation, the ability to lead your team to victory, is ridiculous, IMO. You can have Rivers all you want. I'll take Ben and Eli all day, every day, over Rivers and his inflated stats.
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Is riddiculus because of what ? BC "QB is the most important position" ? "QB always carries his team, rest just contribute" ? "Media hypes QB most so he myst be a God" ? Its a TEAM sport. Its 40+ man game, not one man game. |
To a point, yes, the QB DOES lead the team and should be taken in concsideration when evaluating a QB. He leads his offense to score. How many WRs call audibles after reading a defense. How many OL have to go through there progressions to find the open target then make the throw. The QB has to be able to process all this information mentally, under pressure, AND have the physical attributes to make the throws. So the QB absolutely is the most important player on the team and has a larger impact than any other player on the team. You make it sound like the QB has no impact on whether a tream wins or not. Wins, especially in high pressure situations, are not useless in evaluating the the overall game of a QB.
So you don't put as much stock in a QB's leadership ability or his impact on winning games in your evaluation of QBs? Well, I do. It means more to me than apparently most here. You can have a great defense, a great coach, great role players, but if you don't have a QB that can lead your offense, perform under the pressure of the playoffs, then you aren't getting very far IMO. |
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CP3MVP
Joined: 07 Feb 2012
Posts: 195
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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People forget that the "vaunted Steelers D" got ROASTED by Kurt Warner and got torched by Larry Fitsgerald in the SB. They gave up the lead late and who was there to save them with an All time great gamewinning SB drive?
Big Ben. |
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CP3MVP
Joined: 07 Feb 2012
Posts: 195
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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I hate when people don't value Clutch performers.
Regular season stat stuffing isn't the be all end all |
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RaisinBran
Joined: 18 Aug 2008
Posts: 8877
Location: 925 Bay Area
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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Before this past season I would have said Big Ben, but now I'd pick Eli somewhat easily.
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E-Man
Joined: 11 May 2009
Posts: 1185
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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| LTF wrote: | What were Eli's playoff numbers when he was 23 years old?
Quit blindly comparing stats. If Roethlisberger's first two SB appearances came when he was 27 and 31 like Eli, as opposed to 23 and 26 like Ben, they'd look a hell of a lot different too. Both are multiple champions, both have been incredibly clutch, and both have enjoyed a lot of success in two different situations. Leave it at that. |
did Eli have a top-notch defense and running game to support him, while he was playing in a dumbed-down offense, when he was 23?
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E-Man
Joined: 11 May 2009
Posts: 1185
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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| CP3MVP wrote: | People forget that the "vaunted Steelers D" got ROASTED by Kurt Warner and got torched by Larry Fitsgerald in the SB. They gave up the lead late and who was there to save them with an All time great gamewinning SB drive?
Big Ben. |
the same defense that gave them six points before the half? which essentially was either a 10, or 14-point, turnaround.
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mse326
Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 13521
Location: LORK on the sig
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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| E-Man wrote: | | LTF wrote: | What were Eli's playoff numbers when he was 23 years old?
Quit blindly comparing stats. If Roethlisberger's first two SB appearances came when he was 27 and 31 like Eli, as opposed to 23 and 26 like Ben, they'd look a hell of a lot different too. Both are multiple champions, both have been incredibly clutch, and both have enjoyed a lot of success in two different situations. Leave it at that. |
did Eli have a top-notch defense and running game to support him, while he was playing in a dumbed-down offense, when he was 23? |
In the playoffs? Yes.
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CP3MVP
Joined: 07 Feb 2012
Posts: 195
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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| E-Man wrote: | | CP3MVP wrote: | People forget that the "vaunted Steelers D" got ROASTED by Kurt Warner and got torched by Larry Fitsgerald in the SB. They gave up the lead late and who was there to save them with an All time great gamewinning SB drive?
Big Ben. |
the same defense that gave them six points before the half? which essentially was either a 10, or 14-point, turnaround. |
They still got Destroyed by the cards, and they GAVE UP THE LEAD with the game on the line. Big Ben saved them |
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