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Keep Joe Mays

Yes

15%

[ 3 ]

45%

[ 9 ]

Only for a low low price

40%

[ 8 ]

Total Votes : 20

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lomaxgr

Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 19802
Location: Manchester, England

Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:00 am Post subject:

I get the feeling that after starting so many games, his price tag will outway his value to the team. He's an above average/good Special Teams player that is extremely limited in space.

If he is less than $1.5 million a year, bring him back. Any more and I think we can get someone of similar worth in the draft for better value.
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JerseysFinest27

Joined: 07 Jan 2010
Posts: 5984
Location: New Jersey... Props to inDENguise on the sig

Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:57 am Post subject:

Mile High wrote:

I like Mays and would love for him to be a Bronco. If only we could be a 3-4 defense...Doom---Mays---D.J.---Von would be as elite a LB core in the NFL as there is.

Anyways Mays fits more in the 3-4, if I was him trying to be successful in the NFL I'd leave...but I would be happy if he stayed in Denver. He is still young and remember it was his 1st year in the defense. Give him time.

Man, we think alike so much. Everyday I just think how good this team could be in a 3-4. We just dont have the DL to make it happen. Also, with teams trying to spread the defense out now, a 4-3 defense is the way to go. Von just needs to learn to play like Terrel Suggs, he'll be fine.

As for Mays, hes a good ST'er but not a starter in the 4-3 MLB position. If Xanders can get him to sign a low contract then sure. Id be hesitant to get in any sort of negotiations with him because his value in his career is at its highest right now. Its pathetic to even write that.
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AntiSuperstar

Joined: 07 Oct 2007
Posts: 4324

Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:48 pm Post subject:

JerseysFinest27 wrote:

Also, with teams trying to spread the defense out now, a 4-3 defense is the way to go.

??? Wut?
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broncos67

Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 18131
Location: Capitol Cit-ay

Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:54 pm Post subject:

AntiSuperstar wrote:

JerseysFinest27 wrote:

Also, with teams trying to spread the defense out now, a 4-3 defense is the way to go.

??? Wut?

Yeah, I'm not sure I understand.
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JerseysFinest27

Joined: 07 Jan 2010
Posts: 5984
Location: New Jersey... Props to inDENguise on the sig

Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:58 pm Post subject:

AntiSuperstar wrote:

JerseysFinest27 wrote:

Also, with teams trying to spread the defense out now, a 4-3 defense is the way to go.

??? Wut?

You saw it this year with the Steelers. Obviously they had some injuries throughout the year. But teams were running 3 and 4 WR sets, not playing to the strength of that defense, which is outside pressure.
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AntiSuperstar

Joined: 07 Oct 2007
Posts: 4324

Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:15 pm Post subject:

JerseysFinest27 wrote:

Uhhh, I'm not even sure what you're talking about but we weren't spreading the field all game against Pittsburgh. And New England, a spread offense had more trouble against Pittsburgh than any team they faced. So what you're saying is quite to the contrary.

Playing spread against Pittsburgh only encourages them to go to the wildman defenses with everyone moving around and you can't identify the blitzers etc. The majority of Pittsburgh blitzing overhwhelmingly comes from sub-packages. Going 3 and 4 WR sets only encourages that team to blitz.

And when I look at the teams who beat Pittsburgh this season, Baltimore, Houston, Denver, and San Francisco, none of them scream spread offense to me. What you have are run heavy/play action heavy offenses with multiple Tigth End formations.

I've seen people make this argument before too. Hey guys: When teams go 4 and 5 wide, you take out a defensive lineman. For a 3-4 team, that means the Nose Tackle. The role of the pass rushers does not change. I don't know where this misconception comes from. 4 and 5 wide might take better advantage of Safeties but it doesn't make much of a difference towards pass rushers. And with Linebackers in general, the best way to kill them in coverage is to force them to play man, which won't come against Wide Receivers often(teams will adjust for that and can easily see when a team is employing extra receivers thus requiring more DBs) but it can come against Tight Ends(although this even isn't as common as people think).
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JerseysFinest27

Joined: 07 Jan 2010
Posts: 5984
Location: New Jersey... Props to inDENguise on the sig

Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:36 pm Post subject:

AntiSuperstar wrote:

JerseysFinest27 wrote:

I wasnt talking about our game with them because obviously we dont have the personnel to spread anyone out.

Also, Baltimore and NE are more of a 4-3 team now. SF and HOU luckily have very good personnel for a 3-4. They both have an athletic DL and LBers, and can bring pressure with 3-4 players alone.

If I understand correctly the best way to beat a 3-4 defense is attack them through the air correct? The DL and LBers are generally bigger and less athletic than those in the 4-3 right?

When a team goes to 4 WR sets, like you said, the team will take out a bigger DE usually. Then obviously switch a LBer out for a nickel or dime CB. That still leaves the less athletic OLBs and 4-5 members of the secondary! Attacking that defense with 4 WR's and a TE or a RB will be a lot easier than against a smaller faster defense.

Ultimately what Im asking is: you would say its easier to spread out a 4-3 defense than a 3-4?
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Donut

Joined: 13 Jan 2008
Posts: 11476

Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:45 pm Post subject:

JerseysFinest27 wrote:

Also, Baltimore and NE are more of a 4-3 team now. SF and HOU luckily have very good personnel for a 3-4. They both have an athletic DL and LBers, and can bring pressure with 3-4 players alone.

Not true about NE. We were in 4-3 to start the year because it's easier to install than 3-4. Also Carter is a 4-3 exclusive guy and was very good after he wet down we ran more 3-4.

JerseysFinest27 wrote:

Ultimately what Im asking is: you would say its easier to spread out a 4-3 defense than a 3-4?

Depends on the team. If a team goes out 4 wide, you are going into a subpackage and it depends on personnel.

It depends on how much he wants. If its reasonable he'd be good to bring back. If he doesnt than no MLB w/ experience. If he isnt resigned they need to sign a vet that is capable of being a role player on defense.
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JerseysFinest27

Joined: 07 Jan 2010
Posts: 5984
Location: New Jersey... Props to inDENguise on the sig

Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:51 pm Post subject:

Donut wrote:

JerseysFinest27 wrote:

Also, Baltimore and NE are more of a 4-3 team now. SF and HOU luckily have very good personnel for a 3-4. They both have an athletic DL and LBers, and can bring pressure with 3-4 players alone.

Not true about NE. We were in 4-3 to start the year because it's easier to install than 3-4. Also Carter is a 4-3 exclusive guy and was very good after he wet down we ran more 3-4.

JerseysFinest27 wrote:

Ultimately what Im asking is: you would say its easier to spread out a 4-3 defense than a 3-4?

Obviously it depends on the team. Im talking defensive concepts.

If all things equal, you have to say its easier to spread out 3-4 defenses than 4-3.
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AntiSuperstar

Joined: 07 Oct 2007
Posts: 4324

Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:00 pm Post subject:

JerseysFinest27 wrote:

Also, Baltimore and NE are more of a 4-3 team now.

Not sure what that has to do with matching up with Pittsburgh's defense. Pretty sure both teams run both and I have watched many Patriots game enough to say they line up in 3-4 sets regularly and by late season, often. Regardless, still not sure what that has to do with stopping Pittsburgh's defense.

JerseysFinest27 wrote:

SF and HOU luckily have very good personnel for a 3-4. They both have an athletic DL and LBers, and can bring pressure with 3-4 players alone.

Now you're confusing me I'm not even sure what you're trying to say. By the way 3 out of 4 of Pittsburgh's Linebackers are athletic so I fail to see the point. Plenty of teams can bring pressure with 3-4 players alone and they're not all tiny defenses. Houston had 290 pound Mario Williams rushing the passer as an OLB early in the season for heaven's sake.

JerseysFinest27 wrote:

If I understand correctly the best way to beat a 3-4 defense is attack them through the air correct? The DL and LBers are generally bigger and less athletic than those in the 4-3 right?

At best, there is only a slight difference between personnel in a base 3-4 team's nickle and a base 4-3 team's nickle. You take out the Nose Tackle. At most 4-3 teams are slightly smaller. The types of personnel groupings where teams line up for Defensive Ends like the Giants are famous doing, are very rare, and contrary to popular belief the Giants themselves often don't utilize them and against New England they often kept at least one tackle on the field(mostly becaue contrary to popular belief defending the draw is important and pass rushing isn't all about speed and quickness, not to mention DTs in particular are skilled at batting balls down inside).

In essence you're talking about 2 3-4 Outside Linebackers playing a similar role to 4-3 Ends who are about the same size. And two 3-4 Defensive Ends who are about the same size as 4-3 Defensive Tackle pass rushers. And two Interior Linebackers who are no different than the two Linebackers in base 4-3 team's subpackages.

The Linebackers need not be bigger, if you're talking about interior ones. There's no necessity for 3-4 Linebackers to be bigger, and guys like Lawrence Timmons or Karlos Dansby, or the starting Linebackers of either San Francisco or Washington, 3-4 Linebackers, are as athletic as any other interior Linebackers in the league. Arizona has a young dude who is pretty athletic too. As for Outside Linebackers, again, they're not unlike Defensive Ends in 4-3 teams sub packages. But to answer your question, if anything 3-4 OLBs are more used to coverage so are probably more athletic than their 4-3 counterparts.

JerseysFinest27 wrote:

When a team goes to 4 WR sets, like you said, the team will take out a bigger DE usually.

No, they take out the Nose Tackle. Unless you're Washington with Cofield or Dallas with Ratliff, you take out the Nose Tackle.

JerseysFinest27 wrote:

Then obviously switch a LBer out for a nickel or dime CB.

First off, teams frequently play nickle against 4 spread personnel. Dime is much more common than it used to be but it's not an immediate thing. For example Denver doesn't play a 4th Dime corner much. It's also worth noting that several teams play 3 Safeties and 3 corners as their dime more often than they do 4 Cornerbacks.

JerseysFinest27 wrote:

That still leaves the less athletic OLBs and 4-5 members of the secondary! Attacking that defense with 4 WR's and a TE or a RB will be a lot easier than against a smaller faster defense.

Well first off, given that 2 Defensive Line formations are not that unusual(and in fact super commonplace if you're Green Bay for instance) and even 1 d-Lineman with every once else moving around is a used set, your description is not even accurate. And if you're describing dime, no, that's 6 members of the secondary, not 5. Nickle is 5. Base is 4. Anything less is a situational power alignment such as goal line groupings. Quarters or whatever it's called is 7. 8 means it's the end of the game and you're defending the Hail Mary(and even then that never happens because teams usually rush 4 or they keep a Linebacker as opposed to an 8th DB)

I'm not even sure what you mean with your last sentence. Why would it be easier?

JerseysFinest27 wrote:

Ultimately what Im asking is: you would say its easier to spread out a 4-3 defense than a 3-4?

Depends on the personnel.
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Twizlers

Joined: 27 Oct 2008
Posts: 1806

Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:41 pm Post subject:

dbronx42 wrote:

Wouldn't mind having him for depth, but he is not starting material... He is good for a monster hit every now and then, but he is beyond worthless in coverage, and is to slow to react to plays against elite QB's.

Not true, he isn't beyond worthless in coverage.. In fact I think it's one of his most underrated abilities. He usually is in a good position due to his knowledge of the game and has had quite a few pass deflections for a 2 down player. His hitting power also knocked a few balls loose.

With that said, he cannot blitz and misses way too many tackles. We had problems last year because if a runner got past Bunkley, we often were left up to Mays or one of our safeties to make the tackle. Obviously, that leaves us in a bad situation. If Mays tackled better, I'd say he wouldst least be serviceable for another year. I'd be willing to resign him to a cheap contract, he would be a good depth player (although Haggen is better).
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broncosfan07

Joined: 21 Feb 2007
Posts: 10127
Location: Denver

Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:23 pm Post subject:

Mays underrated at coverage? Maybe compared to Rahim Moore. I've never seen a LB abused in coverage like Mays was he would have been a bigger help if he just fell down at the start of a play and hope someone tripped over him. Also never have seen a MLB miss so many tackles and play himself out of position. What games were some of you watching because I do not recall a single play where Mays stood out other than watching him get burned in coverage and run right past the runner.
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