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AKRNA


Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4409
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thebestever6 wrote:
This is so hard to predict, because if Tebow can develop into a franchise type of Quarterback, which I believe he can with his first full off season as a starter than we are already there. I think he will be in between a game manager, and a franchise QB. So if the Broncos hit on 3 draft picks, and bring in 1 key free agent they are there. See the elite teams in the afc are going to start to decline the arrow is pointing down for them. The Steelers are getting old with cap problems, the Patriots don't have enough pieces and Brady is aging, the Ravens best players on defense are aging. So the top dog in the AFC is up for grabs, and the Broncos, Bengals, and Texans all can contend for it.


I like your optism, but I disagree.

Against teams with 10+ wins last year we were thrashed with only 1 exception. That against the Steelers. Even then, it took a home game, OT, TT having an incredible game against a badly wounded Steelers Team. Not even Elway at his best could have changed the results of the other games.
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germ-x


Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 7158
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Rebuilding Timeline Reply with quote

AKRNA wrote:
Just curious. Reading the various posts it seems we have widely disparate views on how long our rebuilding process will take. I don't mean just being able to win the AFC West. When do you feel we'll be able to consistently compete with the leagues elite.

Typically big name FA's and 1st RD RB's only make sense for fairly complete teams, ones where just a player or two may take them over the top yet I see these suggestions daily. Do you really think we're that close?

Personally I feel we're still two to three years away. Another two years of good drafts and smart FA acquisitions would go a long way.

Anyway, let me know what you think.


It is hard to say when Denver can consistently compete with the leagues elite and be a team that can consistently cause damage in the playoffs. It all revolves around the QB IMO, that isn't to say nothing else is important (i believe putting together a stout defense also needs to be done in the process), but until Denver can get good to great play out of the QB position it is hard to imagine them as legitimate AFC Championship and Super Bowl contender on a yearly basis.

I would like to say Denver is 3 or 4 years away. In 3 or 4 years maybe Tebow becomes that QB or Denver either this year or next selects their future QB that answers the problem, while in process makes good decisions in FA and the draft to put together an impressive defense.

That, however, is best case scenario in my eyes.
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BroncsDominate


Joined: 15 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Based on the job John Elway has done this far I predict us to become/becoming elite in 2013. He has made mostly good FA aquistions so far. (MaGahee, Bunkley) He has made great staff moves. (Hiring John Fox, JDR, Sullivan) and a pretty decent 1st draft. (Miller, Franklin, Carter). I have no doubts he will add two great value starters this offseason and a minimum of 2 starters through the draft. I expect our defense to be no less than top 15 next year. I am optimistic that Tebow will improve drastically over the next two years making him a GOOD ENOUGH/NOT GREAT qb. In 2013 they will be serious SB contenders.
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omegaxla49


Joined: 07 Feb 2012
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Location: Omaha, NE
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Everyone keeps suggesting Brandon Carr, but I don't see the Chiefs letting him go so easy. One person I really want, so long as the Titans don't Franchise him, is Cortland Finnegan. I know he may seem like trouble but he's too damn talented for us to not at least try to get him.

I believe we need maybe 2-4 more explosive/great level talent and some better depth before we become elite.

I'll preface this by saying I'm not the biggest fan of him but, I think Tebow can develop into a better QB, at least good enough to keep the passing game going. A lot of people blame Tebow for the lack of production during games, but I really believe the blame is 60% play-calling and 40% Tebow. We were always ultra conservative in our play calling and people say it's because of Timmy but I can't know for sure because we never opened the playbook for him. I think with a full year of off-season work, OTAs and training camps, Tebow can take a good stride in his development as a QB.
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AntiSuperstar


Joined: 07 Oct 2007
Posts: 4305
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Conservatism was not the problem with last year's offense. It is what was right with the offense, and especially when Tebow became the Quarterback. People need to stop complaining about the team being conservative. Our defense was good, our running game was productive, we won games because the team played conservative. If anything we should have been more conservative last year and ditched half of those read/option plays for draw plays.

What was wrong with our offense is that the passing game lacked any real design outside of a handful of plays that rarely went for big gains(Playoff game against Pittsburgh being the big exception), we often failed to see what worked well and what did not, and that we did not place mismatches on the field.

We could have went our jolly way doing this if the team had stayed turnover free like they had been during the streak of winning games but teams stopped playing stupid against Tebow(and you have to be a stupid defense not to force turnovers against Tim Tebow) and our backs started fumbling. Hopefully next season we become a more conservative, more creative team to cover up for the weaknesses of Tebow and McCoy. We're not quite the 49ers yet but maybe one day this team can reach that point on offense.
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copeland


Joined: 02 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think you can put a time line on it.
At the end of the season, everyone was calling for them to draft and sign FA's that would help Tebow(the general mentality was that he will never be a "prototypical passer"). Weapons for Tebow was the word of the day. Take the pressure off of him.
Now, everyone is back to the BPA(the route I prefer) strategy. I don't think either is an indictment of Tebow, or a praise. But one philosophy will aid Tebow, and the other invests alot into his Fundamental improvement in a short period.
I think, before we can asnwer this question at all, it needs to be Feb. 9th, 2013. This means we have a better understanding of how good the FO is(or not), if Tebow is the guy, and is the team as a whole, improved from where they are now. Too many ifs, too soon to tell IMO.
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JerseysFinest27


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

omegaxla49 wrote:
Everyone keeps suggesting Brandon Carr, but I don't see the Chiefs letting him go so easy. One person I really want, so long as the Titans don't Franchise him, is Cortland Finnegan. I know he may seem like trouble but he's too damn talented for us to not at least try to get him.

That wouldnt be very good.

Who remembers when Kuper got his helmet ripped off by Finnegan last year? Bringing him in would mean they would have to burn some bridges.
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broncofan48


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My guess? 2015 at the earliest. I believe with the schedule next year and maybe a little less luck, Denver isn't going to finish above .500.

Whether or not it's because of him, I think Tebow will not be brought back, I like the guy but I really don't think he has an NFL skill set, and even if he improves, I think he will be the scapegoat if the season is a bad one. That said I think Denver drafts a QB early next year. Maybe Barkley but who knows who will be the best after next years college football season. So the 2013 will hopefully be our true QBOTFs rookie season, so by his 3rd season if he is actually great, we will be close to becoming "elite". That gives EFX 4 offseasons to get the defense to where it needs to be and install some dynamic playmakers on offense.
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AKRNA


Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4409
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

copeland wrote:
I don't think you can put a time line on it.
At the end of the season, everyone was calling for them to draft and sign FA's that would help Tebow(the general mentality was that he will never be a "prototypical passer"). Weapons for Tebow was the word of the day. Take the pressure off of him.
Now, everyone is back to the BPA(the route I prefer) strategy. I don't think either is an indictment of Tebow, or a praise. But one philosophy will aid Tebow, and the other invests alot into his Fundamental improvement in a short period.
I think, before we can asnwer this question at all, it needs to be Feb. 9th, 2013. This means we have a better understanding of how good the FO is(or not), if Tebow is the guy, and is the team as a whole, improved from where they are now. Too many ifs, too soon to tell IMO.


I was trying to dodge the QB spot and consider the supporting cast. The TT situation will sort itself out this year.

I was more thinking along the lines of what Ralston did to turn this franchise around in the early 70's. Basically, in about 4 years he put out a lineup that on "any given Sunday"..... We were finally competitive for the 1st time in history with anybody.

Ralston started the BPA right here in Denver and it worked.

It took him 4-5 years with old QB's well past their prime.
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copeland


Joined: 02 Apr 2008
Posts: 602
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AKRNA wrote:
copeland wrote:
I don't think you can put a time line on it.
At the end of the season, everyone was calling for them to draft and sign FA's that would help Tebow(the general mentality was that he will never be a "prototypical passer"). Weapons for Tebow was the word of the day. Take the pressure off of him.
Now, everyone is back to the BPA(the route I prefer) strategy. I don't think either is an indictment of Tebow, or a praise. But one philosophy will aid Tebow, and the other invests alot into his Fundamental improvement in a short period.
I think, before we can asnwer this question at all, it needs to be Feb. 9th, 2013. This means we have a better understanding of how good the FO is(or not), if Tebow is the guy, and is the team as a whole, improved from where they are now. Too many ifs, too soon to tell IMO.


I was trying to dodge the QB spot and consider the supporting cast. The TT situation will sort itself out this year.

I was more thinking along the lines of what Ralston did to turn this franchise around in the early 70's. Basically, in about 4 years he put out a lineup that on "any given Sunday"..... We were finally competitive for the 1st time in history with anybody.

Ralston started the BPA right here in Denver and it worked.

It took him 4-5 years with old QB's well past their prime.

Do you think that FA will speed the process? It should somewhat. Having said that, I don't think we can talk timeline without talking Tebow. Whether he's the guy or not, it definitely affects the timeline IMO.
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AKRNA


Joined: 28 May 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

copeland wrote:
AKRNA wrote:
copeland wrote:
I don't think you can put a time line on it.
At the end of the season, everyone was calling for them to draft and sign FA's that would help Tebow(the general mentality was that he will never be a "prototypical passer"). Weapons for Tebow was the word of the day. Take the pressure off of him.
Now, everyone is back to the BPA(the route I prefer) strategy. I don't think either is an indictment of Tebow, or a praise. But one philosophy will aid Tebow, and the other invests alot into his Fundamental improvement in a short period.
I think, before we can asnwer this question at all, it needs to be Feb. 9th, 2013. This means we have a better understanding of how good the FO is(or not), if Tebow is the guy, and is the team as a whole, improved from where they are now. Too many ifs, too soon to tell IMO.


I was trying to dodge the QB spot and consider the supporting cast. The TT situation will sort itself out this year.

I was more thinking along the lines of what Ralston did to turn this franchise around in the early 70's. Basically, in about 4 years he put out a lineup that on "any given Sunday"..... We were finally competitive for the 1st time in history with anybody.

Ralston started the BPA right here in Denver and it worked.

It took him 4-5 years with old QB's well past their prime.

Do you think that FA will speed the process? It should somewhat. Having said that, I don't think we can talk timeline without talking Tebow. Whether he's the guy or not, it definitely affects the timeline IMO.


Not necessarily speed the process but be an integral part of it annually. Last year was a perfect example. A few productive starters and upgrades relatively cheap. I'd hate to see us launch into the immediate gratification mode with a huge FA acquisition. (Williams)

I still think you need to get your "stars" through the draft. With few exceptions, thats been proven to be the best method to develop a roster.
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copeland


Joined: 02 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AKRNA wrote:
copeland wrote:
AKRNA wrote:
copeland wrote:
I don't think you can put a time line on it.
At the end of the season, everyone was calling for them to draft and sign FA's that would help Tebow(the general mentality was that he will never be a "prototypical passer"). Weapons for Tebow was the word of the day. Take the pressure off of him.
Now, everyone is back to the BPA(the route I prefer) strategy. I don't think either is an indictment of Tebow, or a praise. But one philosophy will aid Tebow, and the other invests alot into his Fundamental improvement in a short period.
I think, before we can asnwer this question at all, it needs to be Feb. 9th, 2013. This means we have a better understanding of how good the FO is(or not), if Tebow is the guy, and is the team as a whole, improved from where they are now. Too many ifs, too soon to tell IMO.


I was trying to dodge the QB spot and consider the supporting cast. The TT situation will sort itself out this year.

I was more thinking along the lines of what Ralston did to turn this franchise around in the early 70's. Basically, in about 4 years he put out a lineup that on "any given Sunday"..... We were finally competitive for the 1st time in history with anybody.

Ralston started the BPA right here in Denver and it worked.

It took him 4-5 years with old QB's well past their prime.

Do you think that FA will speed the process? It should somewhat. Having said that, I don't think we can talk timeline without talking Tebow. Whether he's the guy or not, it definitely affects the timeline IMO.


Not necessarily speed the process but be an integral part of it annually. Last year was a perfect example. A few productive starters and upgrades relatively cheap. I'd hate to see us launch into the immediate gratification mode with a huge FA acquisition. (Williams)

I still think you need to get your "stars" through the draft. With few exceptions, thats been proven to be the best method to develop a roster.


Agreed.
If you are essentially saying, continue what we have already done, I'm all for it.
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AKRNA


Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4409
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

copeland wrote:
AKRNA wrote:
copeland wrote:
AKRNA wrote:
copeland wrote:
I don't think you can put a time line on it.
At the end of the season, everyone was calling for them to draft and sign FA's that would help Tebow(the general mentality was that he will never be a "prototypical passer"). Weapons for Tebow was the word of the day. Take the pressure off of him.
Now, everyone is back to the BPA(the route I prefer) strategy. I don't think either is an indictment of Tebow, or a praise. But one philosophy will aid Tebow, and the other invests alot into his Fundamental improvement in a short period.
I think, before we can asnwer this question at all, it needs to be Feb. 9th, 2013. This means we have a better understanding of how good the FO is(or not), if Tebow is the guy, and is the team as a whole, improved from where they are now. Too many ifs, too soon to tell IMO.


I was trying to dodge the QB spot and consider the supporting cast. The TT situation will sort itself out this year.

I was more thinking along the lines of what Ralston did to turn this franchise around in the early 70's. Basically, in about 4 years he put out a lineup that on "any given Sunday"..... We were finally competitive for the 1st time in history with anybody.

Ralston started the BPA right here in Denver and it worked.

It took him 4-5 years with old QB's well past their prime.

Do you think that FA will speed the process? It should somewhat. Having said that, I don't think we can talk timeline without talking Tebow. Whether he's the guy or not, it definitely affects the timeline IMO.


Not necessarily speed the process but be an integral part of it annually. Last year was a perfect example. A few productive starters and upgrades relatively cheap. I'd hate to see us launch into the immediate gratification mode with a huge FA acquisition. (Williams)

I still think you need to get your "stars" through the draft. With few exceptions, thats been proven to be the best method to develop a roster.


Agreed.
If you are essentially saying, continue what we have already done, I'm all for it.


That's what I was trying to say. Sure got wordy about it. Wink
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Russell2Bailey


Joined: 20 Mar 2008
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Location: Where I will, I'll roam.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

elliot878 wrote:
Russell2Bailey wrote:
elliot878 wrote:
I think somewhere between 2-4 years if things go according to plan, and all our offseasons are as good as EXF's first (which will be tough).

Our depth is pathetic. There are only 5 impact starters on defense (Champ, Von, DJ, Doom, Bunk) on defense right now. The offense has some good pieces and some promise, but the greatest playmaker on the offense is a constant injury risk. Quality depth needs to be layered in on offense as well.

I can say with confidence that our punting and kicking game are where they need to be!
That narrows it down Laughing


Demaryius Thomas. By far our greatest threat on offense, br far our most injury prone offensive player.
The sad part is, his foot and achilles injuries never occured in one of our practices or games. Laughing
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