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BaltimoreTerp
Joined: 13 Feb 2005
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Location: Brooklyn, New York
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 Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Flaccomania wrote: | | Quote: | | Plus this miss is going to haunt him mentally as well. He's going to overthink and make more bad kicks. Remember when Vanderjagt missed that field goal against the Steelers? He was a way more accurate kicker than Cundiff throughout his career and was one of the most accurate kickers in the history of the NFL. What happened to him after that? He was horrible and was out of the league shortly thereafter. Kicking is mostly mental and once his psyche has been ruined, he's pretty much going to be worthless for us in clutch situations. I think this could easily ruin his psyche like Vanderjagt. |
And now you're just playing psychic. This has just as much merit as if I said "this is just going to make him better because he knows it can't get any worse than this and he'll mentally be prepared at all times in future sitautions." It has no bearing whatsoever. |
Um yes, it does. Trying to accurately determine future outcomes is exactly what we should be doing to decide whether to bring Cundiff back. And I think there's a strong case to be made that this could ruin Cundiff's career with us at the very least. Not definite, but the Vanderjagt example rings true. Nate Kaeding's consistent playoff shortcomings in San Diego come to mind as well, and the last thing we want is to end up in a situation where Cundiff lets us down again. It's not like Cundiff was an especially reliable kicker beforehand; he's been kicking around the league for 9 years now and 2010 was the only year you could call decidedly above average. He's made, what, 1 field goal over 50 yards in the past 6 years? He was bad this year, and I didn't trust him going into this game or these playoffs. I even turned to my Pats fan friends during our first FG attempt of the day on Sunday and told them that I didn't trust Cundiff and feared he would blow it for us at an inopportune moment. I didn't want to be right, but I was. What big kick has Cundiff made for us in his career? He's made a couple of chip shot game-winners, but was never especially clutch, and in the sort of moment where you actually do need a mildly mentally capable kicker, he crumbled.
Kicking is an especially mental discipline and that kick ('Cundiff' is already becoming a part of the general sports vernacular as a synonym for choking) is going to follow him for the rest of his career. I don't particularly want my kicker to have the image of blowing the AFC Championship Game in his head next time he lines up for a big kick. Justified or not, Billy Cundiff is the most visible representation of the heartbreaking failure of the 2011 Baltimore Ravens, and he's not ever going to be able run away from it. The questions, catcalls, and second-guesses will follow him wherever he goes, he'll never be sure that he has the full support of his teammates again (the fact that our players are for the most part smart and classy enough to publicly say the right things says nothing about what might actually be going through their heads), and these sort of career-defining failures can often have the affect of snowballing into much worse.
The movement, mostly driven by Stefan Fatsis at Deadspin, in the past couple of days to more or less completely absolve Billy Cundiff has gone a little overboard in my eyes. Yes, he was a little rushed out there. But he still shanked it, and it was still an easily makeable kick even in a situation where he's a little rushed. Doesn't mean I don't think Harbaugh should have called a timeout, but it's not like Cundiff would have definitely made it if we did call a timeout. Doing that only gives Cundiff a lot of time to think about the magnitude of the kick and who knows what that does to the psyche. Regardless of whether Cundiff was rushed on to the field, the snap was good and the hold was good and Cundiff shanked it. Huge failure on his part. Everyone is trying to come up with reasons as to why Billy Cundiff missed that field goal, and maybe the scoreboard confusion played a part, maybe Harbaugh should have called a timeout... but a 32 yard field goal is something that pro kickers can make without as much of a run-up. The slight adversity of the situation caused Cundiff to shrivel up.
It's true that the grass isn't always greener, but at the same time, let's remember that we found Cundiff himself on the scrap heap when Hauschka fizzled and even that was a marginal improvement. Phil Dawson is apparently a FA and that would be a big step up as well. Finding a kicker who can consistently hit from within 40 isn't an impossible task, and that's all Cundiff offers us.
I'm all for redemption, I'm all for second chances, but I'm also not going to blindly 'see what Cundiff is made of' and possibly ruin the last of our last-best-shots at the Super Bowl. You want to see what Cundiff is made of? I already saw what Cundiff is made of. He misses chip shot field goals to end Super Bowl runs.
Cundiff has up till this point in his entire career asserted himself to be a loser; I'm not particularly keen on betting that it's all of a sudden going to change. I'd rather see what we can do to bring in, at the very least, some competition, if not a replacement, because we've got a kicker with a scarlet letter right now and I'm not sure it's ever going away.
I'm sure this can be put off as reactionary, but sometimes I feel like people go too far in the other direction trying to avoid making decisions that seem 'reactionary.' I'd still like people to actually react to the events that have changed the way we look at things. In my eyes, Billy Cundiff showed us who he really was when he missed the sort of kick that the reliable kicker that teams playing tight, close, meaningful games needs doesn't miss. And I'd be peeved if this organization didn't do everything in its power to try to insure that this doesn't happen again. And that should include doing more than simply closing our eyes and hoping that Billy Cundiff doesn't Billy Cundiff next time.
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Last edited by BaltimoreTerp on Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:46 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Nucky
Joined: 27 Dec 2011
Posts: 267
Location: Gaithersburg, MD
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:46 pm Post subject: ... |
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| I thought Shayne Graham looked great for what limited time he played but he's 34 years old. I want someone through the draft. |
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Flaccomania
Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 16550
Location: Parkville, MD
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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| BaltimoreTerp wrote: | | Flaccomania wrote: | | Quote: | | Plus this miss is going to haunt him mentally as well. He's going to overthink and make more bad kicks. Remember when Vanderjagt missed that field goal against the Steelers? He was a way more accurate kicker than Cundiff throughout his career and was one of the most accurate kickers in the history of the NFL. What happened to him after that? He was horrible and was out of the league shortly thereafter. Kicking is mostly mental and once his psyche has been ruined, he's pretty much going to be worthless for us in clutch situations. I think this could easily ruin his psyche like Vanderjagt. |
And now you're just playing psychic. This has just as much merit as if I said "this is just going to make him better because he knows it can't get any worse than this and he'll mentally be prepared at all times in future sitautions." It has no bearing whatsoever. |
Um yes, it does. Trying to accurately determine future outcomes is exactly what we should be doing to decide whether to bring Cundiff back. And I think there's a strong case to be made that this could ruin Cundiff's career with us at the very least. Not definite, but the Vanderjagt example rings true. Nate Kaeding's consistent playoff shortcomings in San Diego come to mind as well, and the last thing we want is to end up in a situation where Cundiff lets us down again. It's not like Cundiff was an especially reliable kicker beforehand; he's been kicking around the league for 9 years now and 2010 was the only year you could call decidedly above average. He's made, what, 1 field goal over 50 yards in the past 6 years? He was bad this year, and I didn't trust him going into this game or these playoffs. I even turned to my Pats fan friends during our first FG attempt of the day on Sunday and told them that I didn't trust Cundiff and feared he would blow it for us at an inopportune moment. I didn't want to be right, but I was. What big kick has Cundiff made for us in his career? He's made a couple of chip shot game-winners, but was never especially clutch, and in the sort of moment where you actually do need a mildly mentally capable kicker, he crumbled.
Kicking is an especially mental discipline and that kick ('Cundiff' is already becoming a part of the general sports vernacular as a synonym for choking) is going to follow him for the rest of his career. I don't particularly want my kicker to have the image of blowing the AFC Championship Game in his head next time he lines up for a big kick. Justified or not, Billy Cundiff is the most visible representation of the heartbreaking failure of the 2011 Baltimore Ravens, and he's not ever going to be able run away from it. The questions, catcalls, and second-guesses will follow him wherever he goes, he'll never be sure that he has the full support of his teammates again (the fact that our players are for the most part smart and classy enough to publicly say the right things says nothing about what might actually be going through their heads), and these sort of career-defining failures can often have the affect of snowballing into much worse.
The movement, mostly driven by Stefan Fatsis at Deadspin, in the past couple of days to more or less completely absolve Billy Cundiff has gone a little overboard in my eyes. Yes, he was a little rushed out there. But he still shanked it, and it was still an easily makeable kick even in a situation where he's a little rushed. Doesn't mean I don't think Harbaugh should have called a timeout, but it's not like Cundiff would have definitely made it if we did call a timeout. Doing that only gives Cundiff a lot of time to think about the magnitude of the kick and who knows what that does to the psyche. Regardless of whether Cundiff was rushed on to the field, the snap was good and the hold was good and Cundiff shanked it. Huge failure on his part. Everyone is trying to come up with reasons as to why Billy Cundiff missed that field goal, and maybe the scoreboard confusion played a part, maybe Harbaugh should have called a timeout... but a 32 yard field goal is something that pro kickers can make without as much of a run-up. The slight adversity of the situation caused Cundiff to shrivel up.
It's true that the grass isn't always greener, but at the same time, let's remember that we found Cundiff himself on the scrap heap when Hauschka fizzled and even that was a marginal improvement. Phil Dawson is apparently a FA and that would be a big step up as well. Finding a kicker who can consistently hit from within 40 isn't an impossible task, and that's all Cundiff offers us.
I'm all for redemption, I'm all for second chances, but I'm also not going to blindly 'see what Cundiff is made of' and possibly ruin the last of our last-best-shots at the Super Bowl. You want to see what Cundiff is made of? I already saw what Cundiff is made of. He misses chip shot field goals to end Super Bowl runs.
Cundiff has up till this point in his entire career asserted himself to be a loser; I'm not particularly keen on betting that it's all of a sudden going to change. I'd rather see what we can do to bring in, at the very least, some competition, if not a replacement, because we've got a kicker with a scarlet letter right now and I'm not sure it's ever going away. |
My point was not that Cundiff is still the answer. My point was simply that jumping to the conclusion that this will haunt him mentally and affect his career negatively is simply projection with no solid ground to stand on. Could it? Sure. Could it not? Also, sure.
Again, I'm all for bringing in competiton for Cundiff and letting them battle it out. I'm against jumping to decisions and conclusions in January 2012 as to what the fate of the Ravens kicker spot should be.
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BaltimoreTerp
Joined: 13 Feb 2005
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Location: Brooklyn, New York
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Flaccomania wrote: | | My point was not that Cundiff is still the answer. My point was simply that jumping to the conclusion that this will haunt him mentally and affect his career negatively is simply projection with no solid ground to stand on. Could it? Sure. Could it not? Also, sure. |
This is Peter King-esque analysis. 'Could Billy Cundiff crumble as an NFL kicker? Yes. Could he come back better than ever? MAYBE. Could Billy Cundiff retire and try his hand at professional bass fishing? ALSO A POSSIBILITY. No one knows what the future holds, so why try figuring it out?!" Of course it could go a couple of different ways. But it's the job of this organization to determine which outcome is more likely and react accordingly. In my opinion, there's a lot of reason to believe that things will get worse with Cundiff before they get better, and very little reason to sit around and find out. And I don't think training camp competition is really going to do much to calm anyone's nerves. I don't need to know whether Billy Cundiff can kick well during training camp and preseason. I need to know whether he can deliver in actual tight spots, when he's not just kicking for himself, but for his teammates. It's a different kind of pressure. And he doesn't pass that test.
As for the idea that January 2012 is too early to make an evaluation, why is that exactly? Should I wait until March, when Billy Cundiff has been sitting at home for 2 months and all of a sudden so much has happened to change the facts on the ground? We've already got all the relevant information in front of us. Sitting around for a while refusing to come to conclusions because it feels too early, even though absolutely nothing will change between now and next August, just seems lazy to me.
_________________
"The really important kind of freedom involves attention, and awareness, and discipline, and effort, and being able truly to care about other people and to sacrifice for them, over and over, in myriad petty little unsexy ways, every day.”
Last edited by BaltimoreTerp on Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:57 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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coordinator0
Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 5873
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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| I think that Cundiff is going to be thoroughly evaluated in the coming months. It wasn't just the last kick he missed, it was the fact that he's been shaky all season (both in kicking field goals and kickoffs) and really doesn't have a history of consistency to say that this season was just an anomaly. At this point the biggest thing keeping him here is the contract we gave him last offseason. I was glad that we brought him back based on the performance he had last season but now I'm not so sure. We don't have a replacement immediately available but I don't compare that to say cutting a offensive/defensive player since teams rarely have a backup kicker anyways. I'd expect the team to try and bring in some competition through the draft or free agency. Sadly there doesn't appear to be attractive options in either of those this offseason so we might not find anybody that can really compete with Cundiff. |
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Flaccomania
Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 16550
Location: Parkville, MD
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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| BaltimoreTerp wrote: | | Flaccomania wrote: | | My point was not that Cundiff is still the answer. My point was simply that jumping to the conclusion that this will haunt him mentally and affect his career negatively is simply projection with no solid ground to stand on. Could it? Sure. Could it not? Also, sure. |
This is Peter Kingesque analysis. 'Could Billy Cundiff crumble as an NFL kicker? Yes. Could he come back better than ever? MAYBE. Could Billy Cundiff retire and try his hand at professional bass fishing? ALSO A POSSIBILITY. No one knows what the future holds, so why try figuring it out?!" Of course it could go a couple of different ways. But it's the job of this organization to determine which outcome is more likely and react accordingly. In my opinion, there's a lot of reason to believe that things will get worse with Cundiff before they get better, and very little reason to sit around and find out. And I don't think training camp competition is really going to do much to calm anyone's nerves. I don't need to know whether Billy Cundiff can kick well during training camp and preseason. I need to know whether he can deliver in actual tight spots, when he's not just kicking for himself, but for his teammates. It's a different kind of pressure. And he doesn't pass that test. |
You take things way out of proportion.
Again, my point is simply to use due diligence, look to the draft, look who's available in FA and let them battle it out. If it's close, then I'm all taking a flyer on the other guy. But there's 0 reason to decide this early on what should or should not happen in terms of "Cut this guy", "Bring this guy in", etc, for the start of a season that's more than 7 months away. Basing personnel decisions on emotional reactions rather than logical and non-emotional analysis is the best action for results.
| Quote: | | As for the idea that January 2012 is too early to make an evaluation, why is that exactly? Should I wait until March, when Billy Cundiff has been sitting at home for 2 months and all of a sudden so much has happened to change the facts on the ground? We've already got all the relevant information in front of us. Sitting around for a while refusing to come to conclusions because it feels too early, even though absolutely nothing will change between now and next August, just seems lazy to me. |
Because you have no idea who may or may not be available in FA/draft? Tell me, what's the logical point in making a decision this early without analyzing the potential replacements and giving it time to see who may actually be a potential replacement?
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Flaccomania
Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 16550
Location: Parkville, MD
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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| coordinator0 wrote: | | I think that Cundiff is going to be thoroughly evaluated in the coming months. It wasn't just the last kick he missed, it was the fact that he's been shaky all season (both in kicking field goals and kickoffs) and really doesn't have a history of consistency to say that this season was just an anomaly. At this point the biggest thing keeping him here is the contract we gave him last offseason. I was glad that we brought him back based on the performance he had last season but now I'm not so sure. We don't have a replacement immediately available but I don't compare that to say cutting a offensive/defensive player since teams rarely have a backup kicker anyways. I'd expect the team to try and bring in some competition through the draft or free agency. Sadly there doesn't appear to be attractive options in either of those this offseason so we might not find anybody that can really compete with Cundiff. |
Thank you. I 100% agree with this.
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BaltimoreTerp
Joined: 13 Feb 2005
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Location: Brooklyn, New York
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Flaccomania wrote: | | Quote: | | As for the idea that January 2012 is too early to make an evaluation, why is that exactly? Should I wait until March, when Billy Cundiff has been sitting at home for 2 months and all of a sudden so much has happened to change the facts on the ground? We've already got all the relevant information in front of us. Sitting around for a while refusing to come to conclusions because it feels too early, even though absolutely nothing will change between now and next August, just seems lazy to me. |
Because you have no idea who may or may not be available in FA/draft? Tell me, what's the logical point in making a decision this early without analyzing the potential replacements and giving it time to see who may actually be a potential replacement? |
Here's my stance on this. I don't see any particular reason not to identify kicker as a significant area of weakness on this team. I'm not saying, "bring this guy in or bring this other guy in," or anything like that. I'm simply saying, Cundiff is extremely shaky and a team like this should aspire for more than someone who is good from within 40 yards in the regular season and not entirely reliable from any distance in the playoffs. There are kickers that are capable of being worse than that, but it's also not all that high a threshold to reach, and it's also true that kickers are fickle and if you get one in the right situation/with the right coach, he'll perform for you (hell, look at the way Hauschka has rebuilt his career in Seattle). I don't see Cundiff's time in Baltimore getting any better, and in fact, I have a strong suspicion that this miss is going to make things even harder for him to succeed with us. All I'm saying is that we go into the offseason with this thought process and take a proactive approach towards replacing him. I think the right formula is out there where we can end up with someone better than Cundiff, whether it's Dawson or some other veteran that may become available, or a youngish guy with a big leg who has floated around the league and has just been waiting for the right opportunity (incidentally, like Cundiff just 2 years ago, before it all went to hell). I don't know who that guy is, and I'll leave our front office to that, because they're the professionals. But I have a hard time believing that for this team, we can't do better than Billy Cundiff. I think parting ways would be a mutually beneficial move. Billy Cundiff may be the right kicker for some other team. But I can no longer say with any faith that he is the right kicker for us.
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"The really important kind of freedom involves attention, and awareness, and discipline, and effort, and being able truly to care about other people and to sacrifice for them, over and over, in myriad petty little unsexy ways, every day.” |
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dcarey20
Joined: 15 Feb 2006
Posts: 7182
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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I cannot accept Billy in a Ravens uni next year
I cant forgive him |
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Flaccomania
Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 16550
Location: Parkville, MD
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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| BaltimoreTerp wrote: | | Flaccomania wrote: | | Quote: | | As for the idea that January 2012 is too early to make an evaluation, why is that exactly? Should I wait until March, when Billy Cundiff has been sitting at home for 2 months and all of a sudden so much has happened to change the facts on the ground? We've already got all the relevant information in front of us. Sitting around for a while refusing to come to conclusions because it feels too early, even though absolutely nothing will change between now and next August, just seems lazy to me. |
Because you have no idea who may or may not be available in FA/draft? Tell me, what's the logical point in making a decision this early without analyzing the potential replacements and giving it time to see who may actually be a potential replacement? |
Here's my stance on this. I don't see any particular reason not to identify kicker as a significant area of weakness on this team. I'm not saying, "bring this guy in or bring this other guy in," or anything like that. I'm simply saying, Cundiff is extremely shaky and a team like this should aspire for more than someone who is good from within 40 yards in the regular season and not entirely reliable from any distance in the playoffs. There are kickers that are capable of being worse than that, but it's also not all that high a threshold to reach, and it's also true that kickers are fickle and if you get one in the right situation/with the right coach, he'll perform for you (hell, look at the way Hauschka has rebuilt his career in Seattle). I don't see Cundiff's time in Baltimore getting any better, and in fact, I have a strong suspicion that this miss is going to make things even harder for him to succeed with us. All I'm saying is that we go into the offseason with this thought process and take a proactive approach towards replacing him. I think the right formula is out there where we can end up with someone better than Cundiff, whether it's Dawson or some other veteran that may become available, or a youngish guy with a big leg who has floated around the league and has just been waiting for the right opportunity (incidentally, like Cundiff just 2 years ago, before it all went to hell). I don't know who that guy is, and I'll leave our front office to that, because they're the professionals. But I have a hard time believing that for this team, we can't do better than Billy Cundiff. I think parting ways would be a mutually beneficial move. Billy Cundiff may be the right kicker for some other team. But I can no longer say with any faith that he is the right kicker for us. |
And that's a fine opinion. We actually agree to a point.
Again, my main point was simply deciding definitive stances in January on player's futures based on emotional reactions is not the best thing to do.
I'm all for upgrading. However, at this very moment, we have no idea if an upgrade is honestly out there or will be out there. Therefore, having any sort of definitive plan either way is premature.
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dcarey20
Joined: 15 Feb 2006
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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I don't care who we get or who is available I do not want Bill. I'm still not over this, still cannot believe it happened, and I absolutely hate that I have to watch the lucky self entitled Patriots play in another SB.
And I hate that in the future everyone will just forget about how good this team actually was and just act like we fizzled out in the playoffs yet again. This was our time and IMO we had the best roster in football. We can talk about Lee Evans and all the other plays but missing a 30 yarder in that situation is just a complete and utter failure at what you do for a living. And the fact that I hear coaches were searching for Billy Cundiff seconds before the kick makes me livid:
Not only did he miss the kick, he wanted no part of it. And while I'll give him a small amount of credit for doing the interview, the fact that he put his hand in the face of the camera nullifies it. On top of that, he had the nerve to mention the scoreboard failure as if that negatively affected him. It's the final plays of the AFCCG, your should be so focused on the actions happening on the field that you shouldnt even know where the scoreboard is!
I can't take it, don't think I ever will be able to. I hate even thinking about having to go through a whole new season of rooting my heart out. Classy moves by Ray Lewis and others who took it well, but we all know what everyone was thinking.
For me, in the words of Michael Strahan: If he's back next year, we have a problem. |
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RAVINGMADD
Joined: 15 Jan 2009
Posts: 2503
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Flaccomania wrote: |
He was injured for a decent bit of the season. Yes, I agree he didn't play up to standards, but again, unless the long term replacement is there for him, you don't simply cut him. I've been supportive in bringing in competition.
And this is where the emotion comes in. No, not signing "any veteran kicker" would "probably be better than him". Go find me a veteran kicker who is available that you think "would probably be better than him", and don't say Shayne Graham, there's a reason he's been on what, 3 teams this year?
And while again, Billy didn't kick great this season, you're putting a ton of emphasis on that 32 yarder. Yes, it was a big kick that he missed, but this doesn't point towards simply cutting him for pretty much anybody else being a smart decision.
And now you're just playing psychic. This has just as much merit as if I said "this is just going to make him better because he knows it can't get any worse than this and he'll mentally be prepared at all times in future sitautions." It has no bearing whatsoever.
I agree with competition, but your assertion that they will simply win the job "because he is horrible" is again, emotional. He won the battle with Graham, was a pro bowl kicker last year, and yes, this year he struggled a bit but also fought off an injury as well.
The grass isn't always greener, which many people seem to think it is. Sometimes, it can be, sure. But just cutting a guy and saying "it can't get worse", especially a guy who while not great this year, certainly was not putrid (Hauschka-like), isn't the way to go unless you have competition and the better guy wins. Which again, is what I'm supportive of, to see what Cundiff is made of. What I'm not supportive of is saying "He deserves to be cut", which is an overreaction in every sense of the word. If he makes that kick, everyone is in love with him because he went 4/4 in the playoffs. But he misses that kick, which he certainly should have made, and all of the sudden the majority of fans think he should quit football altogether (not you specifically since you've been Anti-Cundiff for a while as you said). |
I'll give you the injury for this year, but Cundiff was never anything special at kicker.
I'm not totally sure about their free agent status, but here's a list of guys footballs future has listed as free agents
Jay Feely (ARZ)
Rian Lindell (BUF)
Mike Nugent (CIN)
Phil Dawson (CLE)
Neil Rackers (HOU)
Josh Scobee (JAC)
Nick Folk (NYJ)
Connor Barth (TB)
All of them have a better career field goal percentage than Cundiff, so don't tell me things can't get any better. If I had my pick I'd probably go with Rackers if he isn't resigned.
I think you mean psychologist, not psychic. I'm not going to say it's certainty that this could ruin him, but I'm just giving you the example of Vanderjagt who retired with the highest career field goal percentage. Vanderjagt was way better than Cundiff ever was and two years after his big miss, he's out of the league. Not saying it's going to happen, but I don't want the season to be riding on another Cundiff kick next year and I'm sure most of the players don't either.
And the only reason he was a pro-bowl kicker was because he broke a touchback record that now means nothing because they changed the touchback rule. If a kicker that has a big leg like Cundiff can't hit a 50 yarder to save his life and the coaching staff knows it, it hurts the team.
I agree we should give him some competition and not outright cut him, but I honestly don't want him on the team next year. We are paying a glorified kick-off specialist way too much money to miss kicks like that. |
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Flaccomania
Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 16550
Location: Parkville, MD
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:42 am Post subject: |
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| RAVINGMADD wrote: |
I'm not totally sure about their free agent status, but here's a list of guys footballs future has listed as free agents
Jay Feely (ARZ)
Rian Lindell (BUF)
Mike Nugent (CIN)
Phil Dawson (CLE)
Neil Rackers (HOU)
Josh Scobee (JAC)
Nick Folk (NYJ)
Connor Barth (TB)
All of them have a better career field goal percentage than Cundiff, so don't tell me things can't get any better. If I had my pick I'd probably go with Rackers if he isn't resigned. |
That's kind of my point. We don't know who will/who will not be signed. We don't know who is available for us. So therefore, making any definitive decision in January as to whether or not Cundiff returns is premature.
| Quote: | | I think you mean psychologist, not psychic. I'm not going to say it's certainty that this could ruin him, but I'm just giving you the example of Vanderjagt who retired with the highest career field goal percentage. Vanderjagt was way better than Cundiff ever was and two years after his big miss, he's out of the league. Not saying it's going to happen, but I don't want the season to be riding on another Cundiff kick next year and I'm sure most of the players don't either. |
I definitely meant psychic  Your whole paragraph expressed certainty about what the future holds for Cundiff and wasn't until that very last sentence that any sort of doubt was even introduced.
| Quote: | | And the only reason he was a pro-bowl kicker was because he broke a touchback record that now means nothing because they changed the touchback rule. If a kicker that has a big leg like Cundiff can't hit a 50 yarder to save his life and the coaching staff knows it, it hurts the team. |
Yes, I understand why he was a pro-bowler. He was also pretty darn accurate last year.
| Quote: | | I agree we should give him some competition and not outright cut him, but I honestly don't want him on the team next year. We are paying a glorified kick-off specialist way too much money to miss kicks like that. |
And again, here's the exact emotional response. You want to bring in competition but you're hoping he loses no matter what because you don't want him, with a large emphasis on that single kick.
Yes, the missed kick was heart breaking. I literally felt sick to my stomach, and it'll leave a horrible taste in our mouths until he does something huge. But the whole not wanting the guy on our team because he made that mistake, IMO, is overreacting. If he's not the best guy for the job due to losing a competition, so be it, I'm all for it. But personally, I think hoping a guy gets pushed out the door with the main reason being he missed a single kick, regardless of how easy/big of a situation it was, is overreacting. Many others apparently disagree.
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RAVINGMADD
Joined: 15 Jan 2009
Posts: 2503
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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| It's not just about that one kick though. No one has confidence in him anymore. Our coaching staff didn't have confidence in him before this game. Why do you think we went for it on 4th and 6? We knew he was never going to make that kick. He's not that good. He's never been that good. Last year was the only year he was even a decent field goal kicker. Vanderjagt was way better than Cundiff has ever been and he was out of the league 2 years after shanking a kick that was a bit further than the one Cundiff missed. I think it's going to get into his head and ruin him, which is way more likely than you're theory that next year he will come back as a new man and practice real hard to be better. You can't practice that kind of pressure situation so what is he going to do to get better? The only thing he can do is play another season and face another kick like that and make it. I really don't want to take that kind of risk for something so unlikely to happen. I agree we shouldn't outright cut him, but I think we should definitely bring in competition with full intentions of finding someone else. We can do better than this guy. I don't know why you are suggesting we keep him. The Colts certainly didn't give Vanderjagt a shot after his miss and Vanderjagt retired as the leader for highest field goal percentage. Why should we risk another season to give Cundiff a shot? |
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