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mgoblue44


Joined: 23 Oct 2008
Posts: 3028
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrDrew wrote:
mgoblue44 wrote:
Quick little mock I did:

Round 1: David DeCastro, OG, Stanford
Round 2: Whitney Mercilus, OLB, Illinois
Round 3: AJ Jenkins, WR, Illinois
Round 4: Matt Reynolds, OT, BYU
Round 5: Kevin Koger, TE, Michigan
Round 6: Sean Cattouse, SS, California
Round 7: Dominique Davis, QB, East Carolina

Thoughts?



I'm not sure a Guard is a big enough need to grab in the middle of the first. Green is playing well, Shilling showed some good stuff, and Dielman will hopefully be alright. Unless DeCastro is projected to ply OT, it seems like a bad pick.


For myself, I believe that giving our QB the best possible protection/weapons should be the number one priority. With that being said, DeCastro in my eyes is a better interior prospect than Mike Pouncy was last year, and he went around the same range to where we will be picking. As much as we all want Clary gone, I dont think he goes anywhere because of his contract. But putting someone beside him at RG like DeCastro who can play any of the three interior spots would really benefit Rivers.

I dont think we can sit on projects like Green and Schilling when there is a plug in and play starter like DeCastro who can come in and benefit our team
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MrDrew


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mgoblue44 wrote:
MrDrew wrote:
mgoblue44 wrote:
Quick little mock I did:

Round 1: David DeCastro, OG, Stanford
Round 2: Whitney Mercilus, OLB, Illinois
Round 3: AJ Jenkins, WR, Illinois
Round 4: Matt Reynolds, OT, BYU
Round 5: Kevin Koger, TE, Michigan
Round 6: Sean Cattouse, SS, California
Round 7: Dominique Davis, QB, East Carolina

Thoughts?



I'm not sure a Guard is a big enough need to grab in the middle of the first. Green is playing well, Shilling showed some good stuff, and Dielman will hopefully be alright. Unless DeCastro is projected to ply OT, it seems like a bad pick.


For myself, I believe that giving our QB the best possible protection/weapons should be the number one priority. With that being said, DeCastro in my eyes is a better interior prospect than Mike Pouncy was last year, and he went around the same range to where we will be picking. As much as we all want Clary gone, I dont think he goes anywhere because of his contract. But putting someone beside him at RG like DeCastro who can play any of the three interior spots would really benefit Rivers.

I dont think we can sit on projects like Green and Schilling when there is a plug in and play starter like DeCastro who can come in and benefit our team


Clary's deal is front loaded, so they can get rid of him any time without penalty.

Norv's willingness to stick to Vasquez/Clary is what's really hurting the team. With Norv gone, we'll actually see the best players get their shot. I definitely agree that the OL needs to get better, but not at the cost of losing a player that will help in a position that's more of a need.
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Stone85


Joined: 30 Jun 2010
Posts: 2053
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mgoblue44 wrote:
Quick little mock I did:

Round 1: David DeCastro, OG, Stanford
Round 2: Whitney Mercilus, OLB, Illinois
Round 3: AJ Jenkins, WR, Illinois
Round 4: Matt Reynolds, OT, BYU
Round 5: Kevin Koger, TE, Michigan
Round 6: Sean Cattouse, SS, California
Round 7: Dominique Davis, QB, East Carolina

Thoughts?

I'm digging this outside of Mercilus. Dudes a pure 43DE imo. Position's right though.
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JammerHammer21


Joined: 27 Dec 2009
Posts: 25164
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stone85 wrote:
JammerHammer21 wrote:
No Broyles is a mid 4.5 guy.

We have a slot guy, Brown. We need a speedy threat. Broyles is not the answer.

Pointless argument. Watch the video. He's fast.

And Brown is too slow and not good enough after the catch to be a slot receiver and all of his best plays this year happened with him on the outside.
Not slot- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kE0p2yEfpec
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9txh2jwgrg&feature=related

Slot- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iSbnYyIPoM&feature=related

We should resign VJ, Brown should step up in Floyd's spot same way he did when Floyd was injured, and someone fast with reliable hands and good route running should come in at slot. Adams has putrid route running.


And we have the best WR coach in the NFL.....

I'd much rather have Adams. He'd do more for us.
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mgoblue44


Joined: 23 Oct 2008
Posts: 3028
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stone85 wrote:
mgoblue44 wrote:
Quick little mock I did:

Round 1: David DeCastro, OG, Stanford
Round 2: Whitney Mercilus, OLB, Illinois
Round 3: AJ Jenkins, WR, Illinois
Round 4: Matt Reynolds, OT, BYU
Round 5: Kevin Koger, TE, Michigan
Round 6: Sean Cattouse, SS, California
Round 7: Dominique Davis, QB, East Carolina

Thoughts?

I'm digging this outside of Mercilus. Dudes a pure 43DE imo. Position's right though.


Ive seen him quite a few times this year. His versatility, quick first step and overall athleticism I think will allow him to make a positive transition to a 3-4. But there are quite a few hybrids in the 2nd round that can easily be looked at
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Duffman57


Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 8250
PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mgoblue44 wrote:
Stone85 wrote:
mgoblue44 wrote:
Quick little mock I did:

Round 1: David DeCastro, OG, Stanford
Round 2: Whitney Mercilus, OLB, Illinois
Round 3: AJ Jenkins, WR, Illinois
Round 4: Matt Reynolds, OT, BYU
Round 5: Kevin Koger, TE, Michigan
Round 6: Sean Cattouse, SS, California
Round 7: Dominique Davis, QB, East Carolina

Thoughts?

I'm digging this outside of Mercilus. Dudes a pure 43DE imo. Position's right though.


Ive seen him quite a few times this year. His versatility, quick first step and overall athleticism I think will allow him to make a positive transition to a 3-4. But there are quite a few hybrids in the 2nd round that can easily be looked at


I'm not sure what you've been watching, but i've also see him quite a few times, and he has none of those things. He's a strongside DE in a 43, much like was Robert Ayers as a prospect.
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Everything about Rivers is Awkward, reminiscent of a Giraffe with Down's Syndrome
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The LBC


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mgoblue44 wrote:
MrDrew wrote:
mgoblue44 wrote:
Quick little mock I did:

Round 1: David DeCastro, OG, Stanford
Round 2: Whitney Mercilus, OLB, Illinois
Round 3: AJ Jenkins, WR, Illinois
Round 4: Matt Reynolds, OT, BYU
Round 5: Kevin Koger, TE, Michigan
Round 6: Sean Cattouse, SS, California
Round 7: Dominique Davis, QB, East Carolina

Thoughts?



I'm not sure a Guard is a big enough need to grab in the middle of the first. Green is playing well, Shilling showed some good stuff, and Dielman will hopefully be alright. Unless DeCastro is projected to ply OT, it seems like a bad pick.


For myself, I believe that giving our QB the best possible protection/weapons should be the number one priority. With that being said, DeCastro in my eyes is a better interior prospect than Mike Pouncy was last year, and he went around the same range to where we will be picking. As much as we all want Clary gone, I dont think he goes anywhere because of his contract. But putting someone beside him at RG like DeCastro who can play any of the three interior spots would really benefit Rivers.

I dont think we can sit on projects like Green and Schilling when there is a plug in and play starter like DeCastro who can come in and benefit our team


If we traded back and picked him up in the 20-25 range, I'd tend to agree... that's where the value for top-tier guard prospects come in. But you can't quite compare DeCastro to Pouncey because Pouncey was drafted with the intent of (at least eventually) playing him at safety - that adds an additional premium to his value because he has great positional diversity and at a more premium position (he was for all intents and purposes the top-rated center in the class).

The last elite guard prospect that was drafted inside the Top 20 was Iupati and I just don't see DeCastro having the ceiling Iupati does; DeCastro's got a great floor but he's practically maxed out his ceiling as is unless someone sticks him in a zone-blocking scheme where his frame's lack of ability to take much more bulk won't restrict him as much. Last season the pro-ready, plug'n'play guard prospect fell to right about where the value for those guys kicks in: Pick 23.

If Dielman retires and either we roll forward with Gaither (or if McNeill stays on but so does Gaither in some capacity), and there isn't a player with greater upside available at where we pick, I wouldn't be upset with DeCastro, but that's asking for a lot to fall into place. And if Dielman does return, I'll fully admit that I'd be disappointed to see us draft a RG without the upside of a guy like Iupati or Logan Mankins in the Top 20.
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The LBC


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duffman57 wrote:
mgoblue44 wrote:
Stone85 wrote:
mgoblue44 wrote:
Quick little mock I did:

Round 1: David DeCastro, OG, Stanford
Round 2: Whitney Mercilus, OLB, Illinois
Round 3: AJ Jenkins, WR, Illinois
Round 4: Matt Reynolds, OT, BYU
Round 5: Kevin Koger, TE, Michigan
Round 6: Sean Cattouse, SS, California
Round 7: Dominique Davis, QB, East Carolina

Thoughts?

I'm digging this outside of Mercilus. Dudes a pure 43DE imo. Position's right though.


Ive seen him quite a few times this year. His versatility, quick first step and overall athleticism I think will allow him to make a positive transition to a 3-4. But there are quite a few hybrids in the 2nd round that can easily be looked at


I'm not sure what you've been watching, but i've also see him quite a few times, and he has none of those things. He's a strongside DE in a 43, much like was Robert Ayers as a prospect.


Ironically I was just arguing this exact same thing (not just Mercilus but his lack of a great first step) on Bolttalk with a guy.

Watch the tape... Mercilus doesn't have a great first step and he doesn't have the kind of elite explosion to compensate for that lack. He's a technician (as far as pass-rushing goes) and that's good, but as a 3-4 OLB I'd say he'd be lucky to have a ceiling of a poor man's Phillips (and I'm not even sure he has that until I see the workout numbers because I don't think he has the hip flexibility), but is much closer to an Ayers or Anthony Spencer as a prospect.

I just don't see the explosion on tape and that has been the most consistent trait to among successful 3-4 OLB converts in the NFL: Meeting a certain benchmark in terms of explosive ability.
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Duffman57


Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 8250
PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The LBC wrote:
Ironically I was just arguing this exact same thing (not just Mercilus but his lack of a great first step) on Bolttalk with a guy.

Watch the tape... Mercilus doesn't have a great first step and he doesn't have the kind of elite explosion to compensate for that lack. He's a technician (as far as pass-rushing goes) and that's good, but as a 3-4 OLB I'd say he'd be lucky to have a ceiling of a poor man's Phillips (and I'm not even sure he has that until I see the workout numbers because I don't think he has the hip flexibility), but is much closer to an Ayers or Anthony Spencer as a prospect.

I just don't see the explosion on tape and that has been the most consistent trait to among successful 3-4 OLB converts in the NFL: Meeting a certain benchmark in terms of explosive ability.


Haha, just went and looked that up, i might have to start posting there, seems interesting as purely a Chargers site, with the CMB starting to annoy me...

But anyway, what do you think of Andre Branch, Cam Johnson and Jonathan Massaquoi? I've gone back and fourth on all these guys and i really like the athleticism of Johnson/Massaquoi, and honstly just haven't seen that Burst, or explosion, whatever you want to call it out of Branch, but i've heard he looks better out of a 2 pt stance.
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MrDrew wrote:
Everything about Rivers is Awkward, reminiscent of a Giraffe with Down's Syndrome
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JammerHammer21


Joined: 27 Dec 2009
Posts: 25164
Location: Anywhere
PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The LBC wrote:
mgoblue44 wrote:
MrDrew wrote:
mgoblue44 wrote:
Quick little mock I did:

Round 1: David DeCastro, OG, Stanford
Round 2: Whitney Mercilus, OLB, Illinois
Round 3: AJ Jenkins, WR, Illinois
Round 4: Matt Reynolds, OT, BYU
Round 5: Kevin Koger, TE, Michigan
Round 6: Sean Cattouse, SS, California
Round 7: Dominique Davis, QB, East Carolina

Thoughts?



I'm not sure a Guard is a big enough need to grab in the middle of the first. Green is playing well, Shilling showed some good stuff, and Dielman will hopefully be alright. Unless DeCastro is projected to ply OT, it seems like a bad pick.


For myself, I believe that giving our QB the best possible protection/weapons should be the number one priority. With that being said, DeCastro in my eyes is a better interior prospect than Mike Pouncy was last year, and he went around the same range to where we will be picking. As much as we all want Clary gone, I dont think he goes anywhere because of his contract. But putting someone beside him at RG like DeCastro who can play any of the three interior spots would really benefit Rivers.

I dont think we can sit on projects like Green and Schilling when there is a plug in and play starter like DeCastro who can come in and benefit our team


If we traded back and picked him up in the 20-25 range, I'd tend to agree... that's where the value for top-tier guard prospects come in. But you can't quite compare DeCastro to Pouncey because Pouncey was drafted with the intent of (at least eventually) playing him at safety - that adds an additional premium to his value because he has great positional diversity and at a more premium position (he was for all intents and purposes the top-rated center in the class).

The last elite guard prospect that was drafted inside the Top 20 was Iupati and I just don't see DeCastro having the ceiling Iupati does; DeCastro's got a great floor but he's practically maxed out his ceiling as is unless someone sticks him in a zone-blocking scheme where his frame's lack of ability to take much more bulk won't restrict him as much. Last season the pro-ready, plug'n'play guard prospect fell to right about where the value for those guys kicks in: Pick 23.

If Dielman retires and either we roll forward with Gaither (or if McNeill stays on but so does Gaither in some capacity), and there isn't a player with greater upside available at where we pick, I wouldn't be upset with DeCastro, but that's asking for a lot to fall into place. And if Dielman does return, I'll fully admit that I'd be disappointed to see us draft a RG without the upside of a guy like Iupati or Logan Mankins in the Top 20.



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Bohlmann20 (On The 95 Cleveland Browns Staff) wrote:
Lombardi - Isn't that the guy the trophy is named after? If so, top 3 coach of all time.

#JDI
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mgoblue44


Joined: 23 Oct 2008
Posts: 3028
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The LBC wrote:
Duffman57 wrote:
mgoblue44 wrote:
Stone85 wrote:
mgoblue44 wrote:
Quick little mock I did:

Round 1: David DeCastro, OG, Stanford
Round 2: Whitney Mercilus, OLB, Illinois
Round 3: AJ Jenkins, WR, Illinois
Round 4: Matt Reynolds, OT, BYU
Round 5: Kevin Koger, TE, Michigan
Round 6: Sean Cattouse, SS, California
Round 7: Dominique Davis, QB, East Carolina

Thoughts?

I'm digging this outside of Mercilus. Dudes a pure 43DE imo. Position's right though.


Ive seen him quite a few times this year. His versatility, quick first step and overall athleticism I think will allow him to make a positive transition to a 3-4. But there are quite a few hybrids in the 2nd round that can easily be looked at


I'm not sure what you've been watching, but i've also see him quite a few times, and he has none of those things. He's a strongside DE in a 43, much like was Robert Ayers as a prospect.


Ironically I was just arguing this exact same thing (not just Mercilus but his lack of a great first step) on Bolttalk with a guy.

Watch the tape... Mercilus doesn't have a great first step and he doesn't have the kind of elite explosion to compensate for that lack. He's a technician (as far as pass-rushing goes) and that's good, but as a 3-4 OLB I'd say he'd be lucky to have a ceiling of a poor man's Phillips (and I'm not even sure he has that until I see the workout numbers because I don't think he has the hip flexibility), but is much closer to an Ayers or Anthony Spencer as a prospect.

I just don't see the explosion on tape and that has been the most consistent trait to among successful 3-4 OLB converts in the NFL: Meeting a certain benchmark in terms of explosive ability.


I do agree that he is more of a technician. But from the games ive seen (against Michigan, Northwestern and Penn State this season), on the plays where he does pin his ears back and rushes the passer, I believe that the burst off the line to straight rush up field is there.

Maybe Im higher on Mercilus because he is a BIG kid and Ive seen him manhandle offensive linemen on any part of the line. But where I think we should look for a pass rusher in the 2nd round range, there are plenty of guys who will go in that range.
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AntonioGates


Joined: 02 Jan 2006
Posts: 7819
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know if any of the extreme scenarios are possible or not, but

If the Chargers lose next week, and every 6-9 team wins and Chargers have the tie breaker (which i will wait for the calculations later) the highest they could pick is 9th. The lowest pick the would have if they lose is 16th

If the Chargers win next week and every 8-7 team loses (except for Dal/NYG and DEN/Oak) and the Chargers lose all the tie breakers, the lowest the could pick is 20th. The highest they could pick is 13th.

So lose =
Pick 9-16

Win =
Pick 13-20


Last edited by AntonioGates on Tue Dec 27, 2011 2:41 am; edited 1 time in total
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Duffman57


Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 8250
PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 1:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AntonioGates wrote:
I don't know if any of the extreme scenarios are possible or not, but

If the Chargers lose next week, and every 6-9 team wins and Chargers have the tie breaker (which i will wait for the calculations later) the highest they could pick is 9th. The lowest pick the would have if they lose is 16th

If the Chargers win next week and every 8-7 team loses (except for Dal/NYG and DEN/Oak) and the Chargers lose all the tie breakers, the lowest the could pick is 20th. The highest they could pick is 15th.

So lose =
Pick 9-16

Win =
Pick 15-20


Actually we cant have the 20th pick, thats kept for playoff teams.

Pretty pointless, but i thought i'd let u know...lol

And we could pick 13th if we go 8-8 and every possible team goes 8-8 as well.
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MrDrew wrote:
Everything about Rivers is Awkward, reminiscent of a Giraffe with Down's Syndrome
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JammerHammer21


Joined: 27 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 2:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duffman57 wrote:
AntonioGates wrote:
I don't know if any of the extreme scenarios are possible or not, but

If the Chargers lose next week, and every 6-9 team wins and Chargers have the tie breaker (which i will wait for the calculations later) the highest they could pick is 9th. The lowest pick the would have if they lose is 16th

If the Chargers win next week and every 8-7 team loses (except for Dal/NYG and DEN/Oak) and the Chargers lose all the tie breakers, the lowest the could pick is 20th. The highest they could pick is 15th.

So lose =
Pick 9-16

Win =
Pick 15-20


Actually we cant have the 20th pick, thats kept for playoff teams.

Pretty pointless, but i thought i'd let u know...lol

And we could pick 13th if we go 8-8 and every possible team goes 8-8 as well.


That's false. The 20th is not for playoff teams. The Bucs had it last year, they didn't make the playoffs.
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Bohlmann20 (On The 95 Cleveland Browns Staff) wrote:
Lombardi - Isn't that the guy the trophy is named after? If so, top 3 coach of all time.

#JDI
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AntonioGates


Joined: 02 Jan 2006
Posts: 7819
Location: Southern California
PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duffman57 wrote:
AntonioGates wrote:
I don't know if any of the extreme scenarios are possible or not, but

If the Chargers lose next week, and every 6-9 team wins and Chargers have the tie breaker (which i will wait for the calculations later) the highest they could pick is 9th. The lowest pick the would have if they lose is 16th

If the Chargers win next week and every 8-7 team loses (except for Dal/NYG and DEN/Oak) and the Chargers lose all the tie breakers, the lowest the could pick is 20th. The highest they could pick is 13th.

So lose =
Pick 9-16

Win =
Pick 13-20


Actually we cant have the 20th pick, thats kept for playoff teams.

Pretty pointless, but i thought i'd let u know...lol

And we could pick 13th if we go 8-8 and every possible team goes 8-8 as well.

You are right on your 2nd point. Don't know what I did wrong the first time. But yes, 21-32 are the 12 playoff spots, so 20 is possible.
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