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JustisM


Joined: 13 Jan 2007
Posts: 16605
Location: Hood River, Oregon
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChaRisMa wrote:
On copypasta:

Quote:
1. Preferred method is to just link to the article.

2. Quoting from free public articles is allowed provided its not more then a sentence or two and a link is provided to the source.

3. No quoting and no paraphrasing is allowed from articles that are part of any websites paid content or member only content.

4. Never copy and paste a complete article to the forums.

Permission or not, just don't copypasta. List those names, post a link to the info on them, continue posting. Copypasta is frowned upon with or without permission and with or without citation. Even if it is yours. Those rules keep it as simple as possible.


You also aren't supposed to promote your own work on here though. Catch 22 my friend.
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palmy50


Joined: 26 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MNPackfan32 wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
Palmy when I watch Upshaw I keep thinking Woodley. Is it simply wishful thinking on my part or does he compare well to Woodley? If you had to compare Upshaw to a curent NFL player who would it be?


MeThinks you guys are trying to get me in trouble tonight..... Laughing

I'm on to it though.... Wink
I'm just tryin to figure out who he looks like in the NFL. I like how he uses his hands. I dont see him use the bull rush a lot, I just cant put my finger on this one.


I think there are many of the mold playing in the NFL right now. Thing is, Upshaw will make grade because we have seen him play rush-LB in college. Very, very well coached!

LIS, that kid is not going to turn heads in shorts. Fact is, Upshaw is a very hands on rush-LB that has a style I for one would LOVE to see on the other side of Clay.

Could fall some also. With the new CBA you will not see the same premium on the "safe" kids as you have seen in years past.
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MNPackfan32


Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 7567
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

palmy50 wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
Palmy when I watch Upshaw I keep thinking Woodley. Is it simply wishful thinking on my part or does he compare well to Woodley? If you had to compare Upshaw to a curent NFL player who would it be?


MeThinks you guys are trying to get me in trouble tonight..... Laughing

I'm on to it though.... Wink
I'm just tryin to figure out who he looks like in the NFL. I like how he uses his hands. I dont see him use the bull rush a lot, I just cant put my finger on this one.


I think there are many of the mold playing in the NFL right now. Thing is, Upshaw will make grade because we have seen him play rush-LB in college. Very, very well coached!

LIS, that kid is not going to turn heads in shorts. Fact is, Upshaw is a very hands on rush-LB that has a style I for one would LOVE to see on the other side of Clay.

Could fall some also. With the new CBA you will not see the same premium on the "safe" kids as you have seen in years past.
Damn good point. I never thought of it that way! I wonder how much that will cause this kid to fall? All I know is I want him! Which meens the Packers wont get him Laughing
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Terranimal


Joined: 31 Oct 2011
Posts: 256
Location: Wisconsin
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChaRisMa wrote:
On copypasta:

Quote:
1. Preferred method is to just link to the article.

2. Quoting from free public articles is allowed provided its not more then a sentence or two and a link is provided to the source.

3. No quoting and no paraphrasing is allowed from articles that are part of any websites paid content or member only content.

4. Never copy and paste a complete article to the forums.

Permission or not, just don't copypasta. List those names, post a link to the info on them, continue posting. Copypasta is frowned upon with or without permission and with or without citation. Even if it is yours. Those rules keep it as simple as possible.


Okay, I'm confused. When signed up here and read the rules, it said no linking to other sites. Before I ever signed up here read here on and off over the years and saw various : "post removed, no links or mentioning other sites."

BTW- I don't know how you guys missed it, but did have courtesy of walterfootball in that post. (for player info) I didn't go back and edit it in there, it was there from the start. I think where you missed it is I didn't link after every player description, but rather near the end, because used one source of information.

For the poster that asked on scouting:


First watching youtube highlights or a couple of game films isn't it. Scouts watch hundreds of hours of footage on a player from their high school years on. If you don't work for one of the two major scouting services that provide information to NFL teams or work for an actual NFL team, buying the tapes, which is now DVDs, gets very costly. (If you can get them) It's also why the majority of the draft sites on the net you will see copy cat each other. Very few do their own film work breakdowns. Or some will watch player A and trade that info with another site that watched player B.

Some will get DVDs sent to them from players' agents too, which opens up another can of worms.

Then say you have these DVDs you purchased, then you have to know what to look for as it relates to what team and system. Numbers are the easy part. And if you have followed Thompson and his staff and trends/comments....let's say Cornerback for example: Thompson won't ever use a high pick on a Corner under 6-0 and won't draft a Corner with vertical leap of lower then 35 inches. Then you have Cornerback coach Joe Whitt jr coming out saying that when they view tapes on Corners, that T.Williams is the measuring stick for skills as he's their ideal for a cover corner.

But then it's back knowing what to look for and that takes a lot of time of viewing and reviewing tapes. ( I should say DVD but just so darn use to saying tapes being old school) Different teams and staffs have different criteria sometimes, as one team's pearl might be another team's discard pile....again player fitting into what system.

I'm sorry, but you probably wanted something more in depth. But one position alone would fill up a lot of space. So will cut to the chase.....

Say you have a good eye for talent and breaking down film, that is only part of the process. The other part, again unless you work for a team or one of the two scouting services, none of us will have access to this.

That is these guys will fine tooth comb every thing they can dig up on a player......from their friends, their town they came from and talking to people from there, their family, every coach or assistant they ever played for, former team mates, the psyche tests they run at the combine, etc.

Then if you are the Packers, this is the kicker and is what can't be explained: Thompson, don't know if it is because he was a former player or what, but he will watch a player from being on the field (and this is why you will see him on the field during pre season before roster cuts) see how a player handles coaching, how he inter-acts with team mates, his body language and etc and will go off his gut feeling on player.

I was very lucky in a way. Had bad wreck and was off of work for 19 months from being rear ended back in '97. During that time a retired scout took me under their wing and taught me. Had the time to watch endless hours on players and improve on what to look for....the fine nuances. Now not everyone is good at every position, and one of my weak areas is O-Line, but again do know a little of the criteria Thompson uses which helps...but still.
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palmy50


Joined: 26 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOL
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JustisM


Joined: 13 Jan 2007
Posts: 16605
Location: Hood River, Oregon
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

palmy50 wrote:
LOL


Got something to say? Laughing
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palmy50


Joined: 26 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WOW! Nothing more, just WOW!!!
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Terranimal


Joined: 31 Oct 2011
Posts: 256
Location: Wisconsin
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="palmy50"]
MNPackfan32 wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
Palmy when I watch Upshaw I keep thinking Woodley. Is it simply wishful thinking on my part or does he compare well to Woodley? If you had to compare Upshaw to a curent NFL player who would it be?


MeThinks you guys are trying to get me in trouble tonight..... Laughing

I'm on to it though.... Wink
I'm just tryin to figure out who he looks like in the NFL. I like how he uses his hands. I dont see him use the bull rush a lot, I just cant put my finger on this one.


I think there are many of the mold playing in the NFL right now. Thing is, Upshaw will make grade because we have seen him play rush-LB in college. Very, very well coached!

LIS, that kid is not going to turn heads in shorts. Fact is, Upshaw is a very hands on rush-LB that has a style I for one would LOVE to see on the other side of Clay.

Could fall some also. With the new CBA you will not see the same premium on the "safe" kids as you have seen in years past.[/quote

I'm not so sure. Maybe with this new appeal process things might change a little bit, but that is uncharted water. The Packers will still stay with the "Packer People" type of players.

IMO don't think much will change in the early first two rounds on teams and players with high risk. The same teams that keep doing this...such as the Bengals will probably still keep on doing it, but as to the others, wouldn't expect them to suddenly to a change about in round 1-2 and select risky players.

It will be interesting to see and something to watch in this next draft though.
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Terranimal


Joined: 31 Oct 2011
Posts: 256
Location: Wisconsin
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

palmy 50- a question.....

I haven't seen squat of Alabama this year, so only know what have either read or heard. So is Upshaw better then Von Miller was at this stage last season?
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Terranimal


Joined: 31 Oct 2011
Posts: 256
Location: Wisconsin
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 3:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Terranimal wrote:
ChaRisMa wrote:
On copypasta:

Quote:
1. Preferred method is to just link to the article.

2. Quoting from free public articles is allowed provided its not more then a sentence or two and a link is provided to the source.

3. No quoting and no paraphrasing is allowed from articles that are part of any websites paid content or member only content.

4. Never copy and paste a complete article to the forums.

Permission or not, just don't copypasta. List those names, post a link to the info on them, continue posting. Copypasta is frowned upon with or without permission and with or without citation. Even if it is yours. Those rules keep it as simple as possible.


Okay, I'm confused. When signed up here and read the rules, it said no linking to other sites. Before I ever signed up here read here on and off over the years and saw various : "post removed, no links or mentioning other sites."

BTW- I don't know how you guys missed it, but did have courtesy of walterfootball in that post. (for player info) I didn't go back and edit it in there, it was there from the start. I think where you missed it is I didn't link after every player description, but rather near the end, because used one source of information.

For the poster that asked on scouting:


First watching youtube highlights or a couple of game films isn't it. Scouts watch hundreds of hours of footage on a player from their high school years on. If you don't work for one of the two major scouting services that provide information to NFL teams or work for an actual NFL team, buying the tapes, which is now DVDs, gets very costly. (If you can get them) It's also why the majority of the draft sites on the net you will see copy cat each other. Very few do their own film work breakdowns. Or some will watch player A and trade that info with another site that watched player B.

Some will get DVDs sent to them from players' agents too, which opens up another can of worms.

Then say you have these DVDs you purchased, then you have to know what to look for as it relates to what team and system. Numbers are the easy part. And if you have followed Thompson and his staff and trends/comments....let's say Cornerback for example: Thompson won't ever use a high pick on a Corner under 6-0 and won't draft a Corner with vertical leap of lower then 35 inches. Then you have Cornerback coach Joe Whitt jr coming out saying that when they view tapes on Corners, that T.Williams is the measuring stick for skills as he's their ideal for a cover corner.

But then it's back knowing what to look for and that takes a lot of time of viewing and reviewing tapes. ( I should say DVD but just so darn use to saying tapes being old school) Different teams and staffs have different criteria sometimes, as one team's pearl might be another team's discard pile....again player fitting into what system.

I'm sorry, but you probably wanted something more in depth. But one position alone would fill up a lot of space. So will cut to the chase.....

Say you have a good eye for talent and breaking down film, that is only part of the process. The other part, again unless you work for a team or one of the two scouting services, none of us will have access to this.

That is these guys will fine tooth comb every thing they can dig up on a player......from their friends, their town they came from and talking to people from there, their family, every coach or assistant they ever played for, former team mates, the psyche tests they run at the combine, etc.

Then if you are the Packers, this is the kicker and is what can't be explained: Thompson, don't know if it is because he was a former player or what, but he will watch a player from being on the field (and this is why you will see him on the field during pre season before roster cuts) see how a player handles coaching, how he inter-acts with team mates, his body language and etc and will go off his gut feeling on player.

I was very lucky in a way. Had bad wreck and was off of work for 19 months from being rear ended back in '97. During that time a retired scout took me under their wing and taught me. Had the time to watch endless hours on players and improve on what to look for....the fine nuances. Now not everyone is good at every position, and one of my weak areas is O-Line, but again do know a little of the criteria Thompson uses which helps...but still.


The highlighted part:

Thought better catch myself,seeing how this site isn't use to me and I get jumped on...Obviously no one can have contact with these players officially unless they've declared or observance of a Pro Day.

And secondly: Want to make clear that I haven't worked as NFL team scout or for one of the two Scouting services. Being trained by a retired scout and being an actual scout are two different things. There was a time in life when I was pursuing it, until I found out the demands of the job and pay. I had two boys was raising and a very well paying job and decided before I went any further that Family was more important for me then being gone all the time.
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palmy50


Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 13464
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 4:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Terranimal wrote:
palmy 50- a question.....

I haven't seen squat of Alabama this year, so only know what have either read or heard. So is Upshaw better then Von Miller was at this stage last season?


NO!

Different type of player, and a much different skill-set. Miller is a bit of a freak athlete that bends just as well. Upshaw is far from a freak athlete. Far more "in your face" than Miller is though. Miller makes speed = Power. Upshaw makes leverage = power. Big difference!

MUCH harder to find a Miller than it is to find an Upshaw! If you want Miller's freakish first step, ya better draft it high. You can make/mold a Upshaw. Fact is, Upshaw has already been made. Kids ready!
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Waldo


Joined: 29 Nov 2006
Posts: 22679
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

palmy50 wrote:
Terranimal wrote:
palmy 50- a question.....

I haven't seen squat of Alabama this year, so only know what have either read or heard. So is Upshaw better then Von Miller was at this stage last season?


Miller is a bit of a freak athlete that bends just as well.


I'm not sure "bit of a" is approprite here.

Millers first step on the field, backed up with ZOMG numbers, is off the charts.
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palmy50


Joined: 26 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Waldo wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
Terranimal wrote:
palmy 50- a question.....

I haven't seen squat of Alabama this year, so only know what have either read or heard. So is Upshaw better then Von Miller was at this stage last season?


Miller is a bit of a freak athlete that bends just as well.


I'm not sure "bit of a" is approprite here.

Millers first step on the field, backed up with ZOMG numbers, is off the charts.


Fair enough. Clearly that kids game is all about the first step.
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Terranimal


Joined: 31 Oct 2011
Posts: 256
Location: Wisconsin
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Terranimal wrote:
Terranimal wrote:
ChaRisMa wrote:
On copypasta:

Quote:
1. Preferred method is to just link to the article.

2. Quoting from free public articles is allowed provided its not more then a sentence or two and a link is provided to the source.

3. No quoting and no paraphrasing is allowed from articles that are part of any websites paid content or member only content.

4. Never copy and paste a complete article to the forums.

Permission or not, just don't copypasta. List those names, post a link to the info on them, continue posting. Copypasta is frowned upon with or without permission and with or without citation. Even if it is yours. Those rules keep it as simple as possible.


Okay, I'm confused. When signed up here and read the rules, it said no linking to other sites. Before I ever signed up here read here on and off over the years and saw various : "post removed, no links or mentioning other sites."

BTW- I don't know how you guys missed it, but did have courtesy of walterfootball in that post. (for player info) I didn't go back and edit it in there, it was there from the start. I think where you missed it is I didn't link after every player description, but rather near the end, because used one source of information.

For the poster that asked on scouting:


First watching youtube highlights or a couple of game films isn't it. Scouts watch hundreds of hours of footage on a player from their high school years on. If you don't work for one of the two major scouting services that provide information to NFL teams or work for an actual NFL team, buying the tapes, which is now DVDs, gets very costly. (If you can get them) It's also why the majority of the draft sites on the net you will see copy cat each other. Very few do their own film work breakdowns. Or some will watch player A and trade that info with another site that watched player B.

Some will get DVDs sent to them from players' agents too, which opens up another can of worms.

Then say you have these DVDs you purchased, then you have to know what to look for as it relates to what team and system. Numbers are the easy part. And if you have followed Thompson and his staff and trends/comments....let's say Cornerback for example: Thompson won't ever use a high pick on a Corner under 6-0 and won't draft a Corner with vertical leap of lower then 35 inches. Then you have Cornerback coach Joe Whitt jr coming out saying that when they view tapes on Corners, that T.Williams is the measuring stick for skills as he's their ideal for a cover corner.

But then it's back knowing what to look for and that takes a lot of time of viewing and reviewing tapes. ( I should say DVD but just so darn use to saying tapes being old school) Different teams and staffs have different criteria sometimes, as one team's pearl might be another team's discard pile....again player fitting into what system.

I'm sorry, but you probably wanted something more in depth. But one position alone would fill up a lot of space. So will cut to the chase.....

Say you have a good eye for talent and breaking down film, that is only part of the process. The other part, again unless you work for a team or one of the two scouting services, none of us will have access to this.

That is these guys will fine tooth comb every thing they can dig up on a player......from their friends, their town they came from and talking to people from there, their family, every coach or assistant they ever played for, former team mates, the psyche tests they run at the combine, etc.

Then if you are the Packers, this is the kicker and is what can't be explained: Thompson, don't know if it is because he was a former player or what, but he will watch a player from being on the field (and this is why you will see him on the field during pre season before roster cuts) see how a player handles coaching, how he inter-acts with team mates, his body language and etc and will go off his gut feeling on player.

I was very lucky in a way. Had bad wreck and was off of work for 19 months from being rear ended back in '97. During that time a retired scout took me under their wing and taught me. Had the time to watch endless hours on players and improve on what to look for....the fine nuances. Now not everyone is good at every position, and one of my weak areas is O-Line, but again do know a little of the criteria Thompson uses which helps...but still.


The highlighted part:

Thought better catch myself,seeing how this site isn't use to me and I get jumped on...Obviously no one can have contact with these players officially unless they've declared or observance of a Pro Day.

And secondly: Want to make clear that I haven't worked as NFL team scout or for one of the two Scouting services. Being trained by a retired scout and being an actual scout are two different things. There was a time in life when I was pursuing it, until I found out the demands of the job and pay. I had two boys was raising and a very well paying job and decided before I went any further that Family was more important for me then being gone all the time.


Wow oh Wow! Where do I begin? I have had problems many years ago with a couple of people of impersonating me using my name. That caused me a lot of problems for awhile. But this is different. Let me explain.

I have a son that haven't seen in a few years that has been staying with me. I don't password lock my computer and my notes, that I have kept from back in '97 to current on draft related things, in the filing cabinet next to the computer.

Anyways, got home early and saw him looking at this site and if you have kids, you know how their faces get red when you bust them or they are hiding something? So I jumped on and saw all these posts here from me. (Father and son have had a big talk let's say) I am very sorry for this. I post and write exclusively at a Packer website where he copied and pasted my Mocks, Draft Thoughts, and whatever else from. I do once in awhile read around the net, but pretty much stick to there for posting as time allows. A friend sent me an e-mail last year prior to the draft linking to here and another site. But haven't posted here and now kind of embarrassed to, if you know what I mean. BTW- Thought you guys did a great job on players the Pack had shown interest in before the Draft last spring!

He should not have put out there where I was an assistant sysop/administrator or moderator the way he did. And am very sorry for what he wrote in this and other threads. There are some draft sites doing so really good work out there IMO and I'm lucky enough to once in awhile get to share some things back and forth with a couple of them. I was also very lucky to have been asked to ghost write and do a few evaluations back in '99/'00 when there were only a few draft sites out there.

The part of what happened back in '97 was true and my son was there but it wasn't right for him to put that out here like that. I have kept that quiet and private all these years. But the stuff above that....geez. (Take some bits and pieces of my notes and add some filler but didn't answer the Poster's real question....again my apologies) Anyways, back in '97, I wasn't sure I would ever be able to return to doing what I did before, so I did look into and asked around what it would take to get into the profession because I have always loved football and grew up playing it like most of you.....was Corner and Running back. But I got lucky and rehabbed my butt off and was able to go back doing what I do. Packers are hobby or maybe more then that for me, as I'm an addict when it comes to the draft. Smile

But my sincere apologies for this. Palmy 50 , I gather you are a real scout? Kudos to you if this is case. For me that will always be one dream I didn't get to pursue. I'm what they call the weekend warrior type Wink Also at 48, kind of set in my ways and too old to pursue a new profession.... but I have gotten to live out some other ones.

Anyways, sorry to hijack your guys thread here with personal B.S; but thought I should clear the air. I hope you understand.

God, Family, Packers.....

T.
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palmy50


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That was a funny read. We have three little ones at home. Our oldest is special needs as well. Trust me when I say I understand. Things kids do today..... Laughing
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