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AntonioGates 
Joined: 02 Jan 2006 Posts: 7819 Location: Southern California
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Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:51 pm Post subject: AJ Smith or John Spanos in 2012 |
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I saw that there was a bit of coaching and GM discussion in the Bears game day thread.
Norv Turner needs a big turn around (at least make the 2nd round of the playoffs in my opinion) to be here. After the last 5 games this is a pretty unlikely. So there will be a new coach for the Chargers next year. The real question is, who will be the man who assists Dean Spanos in finding the next coach as GM.
AJ Smith, on one hand has had successes and failures as the GM. From 2004-2006, he drafted as well as anyone: multiple Pro Bowlers, starters, and great depth guys. He also had amazing undrafted free agent classes, and while he missed on his free agent signings, generally he was one of the best GMs in the league. However, since Norv became coach, he has 3 bad drafts from 2007-2009 and 2 drafts that have looked promising, but have yet to make a big impact. There is talk Norv has been the influence of some of the picks (like Buster Davis and Ryan Mathews) and Norv has not done a good job developing the talent. Also injuries have really hurt this team the past 2 seasons, at a rate that is far higher than other teams around the league. That may be a case to keep AJ, but questionable trades and draft picks are ultimately his responsibility.
If AJ is fired, or as LBC suggested, is asked to step down ('retire') then the next in line is Dean's son, John Spanos. John has been working as a scout under AJ Smith, and is the guy next in line for the job. However, he was not supposed to be the GM this early, and wait until after the 2014 season to take over. Putting him at GM may not be the best option at this point.
So, what do other posters think? I personally believe AJ deserves another chance to pick a head coach and reload this team for the next few seasons. This is not a bad roster, it has some good players, but it does need a lot of work. Cason, Laboy, and Clary should not be starters in the NFL, and that is just the tip of the iceberg for roster issues. |
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The LBC 
 Joined: 12 Jan 2008 Posts: 15546 Location: Long Beach, CA
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Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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I think AJ is the lesser of two evils in this scenario, but really I'd prefer neither given my druthers.
I don't think AJ is invested in us for the long-run. There just doesn't seem to be a passion in him for this job. That said, I think the vast majority of our scouting department are utterly clueless and this very much includes John Spanos, and would also likely ensure that our current group of scouts are maintained - which I don't think is a particularly good thing.
Granted, it's difficult of late to totally level blame on them because we've had a coaching staff that past about two or so positional coaches really don't know how to properly develop players technically. At least with AJ we know we've got a guy at the reins who has been able to identify the raw lumps of clay that are "mold-able" into high-end players - can't say the same about John.
My concern is that I'm not sure either is a guy that many worthwhile coaches are going to be all too eager to work with/for. We all know AJ and his personality are not very popular around the league. And coaches typically are not big fans of working for the owner's family as their GM-partner because it's perfectly obvious which side ownership's going to take in the event of any butting of heads or conflict. If John is willing to relinquish a fair amount of personnel control to whoever the new HC is, while he sticks to heading up scouting, he might gain some brownie points with coaching candidates, but that's really about it. _________________
| The Cryptkeeper wrote: | | He's Long, he's strong, and down to get the hittin' on. Russell got whacked. |
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The-Beast 
Joined: 08 Feb 2006 Posts: 9002 Location: Las Vegas
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Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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Personally, I want fresh eyes. More specifically, someone willing to see the faults. If that means an entire front office clearing, then so be it.
Anyways I already know the best candidate, me. I have so many 19-0 seasons on Madden. _________________
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MrDrew 
 Joined: 10 Apr 2008 Posts: 14537 Location: Evil League of Evil
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Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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| The-Beast wrote: | | Anyways I already know the best candidate, me. I have so many 19-0 seasons on Madden. |
Second
It's not just AJ, it the entire Spanos family. Great players don't want to come to SD, fans don't want to come to the stadium, and we'll probably never see a great coach either. Feel sorry for Bengals fans? Not sure we're too far off.
| SDUT wrote: | | Alex Spanos garnered some unfavorable press, too. Capitol Weekly reported that Spanos is nine years late and $9 million short on a pledge to Sacramento State. |
That's the owner. _________________
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The LBC 
 Joined: 12 Jan 2008 Posts: 15546 Location: Long Beach, CA
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Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:04 am Post subject: |
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| MrDrew wrote: | | The-Beast wrote: | | Anyways I already know the best candidate, me. I have so many 19-0 seasons on Madden. |
Second
It's not just AJ, it the entire Spanos family. Great players don't want to come to SD, fans don't want to come to the stadium, and we'll probably never see a great coach either. Feel sorry for Bengals fans? Not sure we're too far off.
| SDUT wrote: | | Alex Spanos garnered some unfavorable press, too. Capitol Weekly reported that Spanos is nine years late and $9 million short on a pledge to Sacramento State. |
That's the owner. |
So regardless of your politics (because sports allegiances should mean more than politics to any "real man"... am-i-right?), we should all be hoping for the soonest possible end to the Bush tax cuts and the leniency from capital gains tax, because that's going to force sale of at least a minor stake of the team - and at least opens the door for some fresh blood (and God-willing AEG! ). _________________
| The Cryptkeeper wrote: | | He's Long, he's strong, and down to get the hittin' on. Russell got whacked. |
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JammerHammer21 
Joined: 27 Dec 2009 Posts: 18076 Location: Anywhere
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Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:16 am Post subject: |
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AJ's just waiting for two more years before he's off to Hawaii. Spanos wouldn't do anything different than AJ. We would need new owners to get a new idea for GM _________________
| Bohlmann20 (On The 95 Cleveland Browns Staff) wrote: | | Lombardi - Isn't that the guy the trophy is named after? If so, top 3 coach of all time. |
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The LBC 
 Joined: 12 Jan 2008 Posts: 15546 Location: Long Beach, CA
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Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 3:30 am Post subject: |
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| JammerHammer21 wrote: | | AJ's just waiting for two more years before he's off to Hawaii. Spanos wouldn't do anything different than AJ. We would need new owners to get a new idea for GM |
Depends on how badly Spanos ends up needing money to cover estate taxes. _________________
| The Cryptkeeper wrote: | | He's Long, he's strong, and down to get the hittin' on. Russell got whacked. |
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bigdogsandiego
Joined: 09 Mar 2010 Posts: 560 Location: San Diego
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Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:33 am Post subject: |
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| Spanos family has proved over time that they are not "hands on" and prefer the GM to run the show with some minor supervision. AJ Smith is an old school guy that no longer understands the younger players and should have been relieved 3 years ago and not resigned. He has alienated most of the players with his poor management style of letting go all pros, screwing with contracts of McNeil/Jackson/etc..., and not communicating. With his contract however, my choice is to keep AJ for another year at most until you find a real GM but Turner needs to be delegated to OC or let go and get a new dynamic hard charger coach at the end of the season. John Spanos is being trained by people that let a solid franchise with all pro players deteriorate to a bunch of wannabes. He is obviously not ready. There maybe 2 or 3 players on the entire team that other teams would be interested in so the idea of rebuilding certainly has to be addressed. Chargers will be lucky to reach .500 even though Turner has shown he can win in Dec. Worse than the .500 record is the fact Charger roster is weak and lacks a core of young improving talent. |
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JammerHammer21 
Joined: 27 Dec 2009 Posts: 18076 Location: Anywhere
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Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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| bigdogsandiego wrote: | | Spanos family has proved over time that they are not "hands on" and prefer the GM to run the show with some minor supervision. AJ Smith is an old school guy that no longer understands the younger players and should have been relieved 3 years ago and not resigned. He has alienated most of the players with his poor management style of letting go all pros, screwing with contracts of McNeil/Jackson/etc..., and not communicating. With his contract however, my choice is to keep AJ for another year at most until you find a real GM but Turner needs to be delegated to OC or let go and get a new dynamic hard charger coach at the end of the season. John Spanos is being trained by people that let a solid franchise with all pro players deteriorate to a bunch of wannabes. He is obviously not ready. There maybe 2 or 3 players on the entire team that other teams would be interested in so the idea of rebuilding certainly has to be addressed. Chargers will be lucky to reach .500 even though Turner has shown he can win in Dec. Worse than the .500 record is the fact Charger roster is weak and lacks a core of young improving talent. |
Butler
Gilchrist
Liuget
Martin
Brown (V)
Mouton
Mathews
Weddle
Thomas
Barnes
Tolbert
No young talent at all. _________________
| Bohlmann20 (On The 95 Cleveland Browns Staff) wrote: | | Lombardi - Isn't that the guy the trophy is named after? If so, top 3 coach of all time. |
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AntonioGates 
Joined: 02 Jan 2006 Posts: 7819 Location: Southern California
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Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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| The LBC wrote: |
My concern is that I'm not sure either is a guy that many worthwhile coaches are going to be all too eager to work with/for. We all know AJ and his personality are not very popular around the league. And coaches typically are not big fans of working for the owner's family as their GM-partner because it's perfectly obvious which side ownership's going to take in the event of any butting of heads or conflict. If John is willing to relinquish a fair amount of personnel control to whoever the new HC is, while he sticks to heading up scouting, he might gain some brownie points with coaching candidates, but that's really about it. |
This is one of the most interesting points brought up. I agree, if AJ is kept then there is no chance we land a guy like Gruden, Cowher, or Fisher. And the only way to get them if John is GM is if you give them compete control over the roster.
As most of you know, I would rather see a new coach instead of a guy who is getting another chance for 2012. And if Dean Spanos does choose to go that way, then no guy who hasn't been a head coach will turn us down, regardless of AJ is the GM. Unless the candidate is like Jason Garrett was, a guy basically told he will be the next coach of another team and being paid like it already, then they will jump for joy at the chance to further their career and get a bump in pay.
Now I'm not up to date with the potential candidates out there, but I have read that Dave Toub, Perry Fewell, and Winston Moss could be guys who a lot of teams look at after the year. I don't think any of those 3 would turn down a job even if they had to work under Mr. Smith. |
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The LBC 
 Joined: 12 Jan 2008 Posts: 15546 Location: Long Beach, CA
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Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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| AntonioGates wrote: | | The LBC wrote: |
My concern is that I'm not sure either is a guy that many worthwhile coaches are going to be all too eager to work with/for. We all know AJ and his personality are not very popular around the league. And coaches typically are not big fans of working for the owner's family as their GM-partner because it's perfectly obvious which side ownership's going to take in the event of any butting of heads or conflict. If John is willing to relinquish a fair amount of personnel control to whoever the new HC is, while he sticks to heading up scouting, he might gain some brownie points with coaching candidates, but that's really about it. |
This is one of the most interesting points brought up. I agree, if AJ is kept then there is no chance we land a guy like Gruden, Cowher, or Fisher. And the only way to get them if John is GM is if you give them compete control over the roster.
As most of you know, I would rather see a new coach instead of a guy who is getting another chance for 2012. And if Dean Spanos does choose to go that way, then no guy who hasn't been a head coach will turn us down, regardless of AJ is the GM. Unless the candidate is like Jason Garrett was, a guy basically told he will be the next coach of another team and being paid like it already, then they will jump for joy at the chance to further their career and get a bump in pay.
Now I'm not up to date with the potential candidates out there, but I have read that Dave Toub, Perry Fewell, and Winston Moss could be guys who a lot of teams look at after the year. I don't think any of those 3 would turn down a job even if they had to work under Mr. Smith. |
Please don't even mention him. Unless we want to end up picking in the Top 5 consistently and be back to where we were under Beathard, we want absolutely no part of Gruden. He's not intelligent, he just thinks he is. The guy rode Monte Kiffin's defense until it was too old to compete while slowly degrading what had at least been a functional offense over time. He's also too much of a "player's coach" - he won't put his foot down with anyone. The only way Gruden is at all a worthwhile coach is really as an OC - but if he's an HC with personnel control that's like asking for a loaded gun to Plaxico your franchise with. _________________
| The Cryptkeeper wrote: | | He's Long, he's strong, and down to get the hittin' on. Russell got whacked. |
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Boltstrikes 
 Joined: 15 Feb 2006 Posts: 5111 Location: LA MIRADA, CA
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Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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I really have no hope for this team right now. Fire AJ and have a Spanos take over? That's worked out so well for the Bengals, Redskins, Cowboys, Raiders right?
Honestly the only realistic scenario I won't want to hari kari myself is a full cleaning. Spanos boy takes over the title of GM and we bring in a Jeff Fisher who will be the ultimate ruler of the house of cards. _________________
| EverythingSF wrote: | | But I do feel Alex is better than Rivers and we may as well not even argue over it here because I am pretty sure neither will change the others mind. |
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The LBC 
 Joined: 12 Jan 2008 Posts: 15546 Location: Long Beach, CA
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Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Boltstrikes wrote: | I really have no hope for this team right now. Fire AJ and have a Spanos take over? That's worked out so well for the Bengals, Redskins, Cowboys, Raiders right?
Honestly the only realistic scenario I won't want to hari kari myself is a full cleaning. Spanos boy takes over the title of GM and we bring in a Jeff Fisher who will be the ultimate ruler of the house of cards. |
There's a number of coaches I'd feel comfortable with having the Grand Poobah of Personnel role while Johnny-Boy heads up the scouting dept. _________________
| The Cryptkeeper wrote: | | He's Long, he's strong, and down to get the hittin' on. Russell got whacked. |
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SanDiegoScrubs 
Joined: 03 Jun 2011 Posts: 887 Location: California
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Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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Want AJ and Norv gone, although might be okay with him staying if a Spanos is the only other option as GM. The guy in my sig should be the next coach though. _________________
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Persian Bolt 
Joined: 24 Nov 2007 Posts: 2641 Location: Austin, TX
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Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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John Gruden, he can be back in the AFC West again. But I can't see him getting along with AJ. _________________
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