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Study on pass rushing 3-4 OLBs: 3-Cone Drill; Vert and Broad
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nicfre2006


Joined: 06 Nov 2006
Posts: 3325
PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlaZeN37 wrote:
EliteTexan80 wrote:
I'd be interested in seeing this kind of data in regards to the players' 10 yard splits. While it is nothing more than a subset stat based on the 40 yard dash, it's a good barometer on how a player can "time their launch" based on audible sounds and get up to top speed when prompted to run.

IIRC, the 10 yard split rage really hit a peak when Clay Matthews ran a sub 1.6 10 yard split. One can make the direct correlation of Matthews' reaction time and ability to get to top speed right off the bat as one of the key pieces of his pass rushing skill (it's that and the hair, IMO).



I can tell you that there is not much correlation. I have a list of pretty much every pass rushing 3-4 OLB in the past 8 years or so (about 30 players), along with there combine numbers that I compiled. There really is no real pattern with them and they flucuate a lot. There are players who you think would have great ten yard splits who don't and there are players who you would not expect them to have good splits and they did. It seems like a wash in someways, and has more to do with getting out of a track stance faster more so then anything else.


Very good point. And I have to wonder if maybe one reason it doesn't hold as much meaning as it might at first thought is because as you said it is a track stance and the player isn't starting his movement forward based on any external indicator (movement or a horn for example), but is moving forward when he decides to do so. Maybe I am reading too much into it.
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nicfre2006


Joined: 06 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder how players like Jason Taylor, James Harrison, and LaMarr Woodley would stack up when looking at these numbers?

Edit : or Terrell Suggs, Jerry Porter, or Elvis Dumervil when looking at combine numbers.
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kenney


Joined: 24 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Von Miller ran a 6.7 3-cone drill. I think someone mentioned it on the first page, but going back and looking I can't find it.

Otherwise, extremely interesting stuff. I wonder if this could become the sort of correlative that number of games started has been for D-I QBs.
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Kenney>Everyone else on here
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mse326


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hope this is true because Barwin actually meets the criteria on all 3 levels. We need him to be a feared pass rusher.
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BlaZeN37


Joined: 19 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Supersuavesky wrote:
Um... Pretty sure that was his biggest draw in.


Well it didn't carry over to the NFL, because he was slow and stiff. It disgusts me even thinking about the pick that the Jets wasted on him.


jrry32 wrote:
In what universe did Manny Lawson lead the NFL in QB Pressures?


This one, haha. There is an article that shows Lawson leading the league in QB pressures in 2010. I can't find it right now but when I do I'll post it here.
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jrry32


Joined: 04 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlaZeN37 wrote:
Supersuavesky wrote:
Um... Pretty sure that was his biggest draw in.


Well it didn't carry over to the NFL, because he was slow and stiff. It disgusts me even thinking about the pick that the Jets wasted on him.


jrry32 wrote:
In what universe did Manny Lawson lead the NFL in QB Pressures?


This one, haha. There is an article that shows Lawson leading the league in QB pressures in 2010. I can't find it right now but when I do I'll post it here.


http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ys-intangibles012711
Long lead the NFL in hurries

Pro Football Focus has Tamba Hali down as the NFL leader in QB Pressures.
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Don't worry. Sean Payton would pass the ball in a Tornado.

But would he do it in a Sharknado?
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roasthawg


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As freakish as Demarcus Ware was, Von beat him in 3 of the 4 events posted in the op. Wow!

Overall I like what you've done here but it's just so hard to come up with a hard cutoff. It does look like the lower the 3 cone, the better the player. Vert is also a good number to look at... Suggs is one of the only guys I can think of with a low vert that's been great.
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BlaZeN37


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ys-intangibles012711
Long lead the NFL in hurries

Pro Football Focus has Tamba Hali down as the NFL leader in QB Pressures.



http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2010/11/19/pass-rushing-productivity-whos-making-the-most-of-their-opportunities/

This article is claiming he was the most productive pass rusher PER rush... My fault, he didn't blitz enough to lead in that catergory. The formula for this is...

QB Disruption Points = Sacks + Hits (0.75) + Pressures (0.75)

Pass-Rushing Productivity = QB Disruptions Points / Number of Pass Rushes x 100.
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antwanh5


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlaZeN37 wrote:
jrry32 wrote:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ys-intangibles012711
Long lead the NFL in hurries

Pro Football Focus has Tamba Hali down as the NFL leader in QB Pressures.



http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2010/11/19/pass-rushing-productivity-whos-making-the-most-of-their-opportunities/

This article is claiming he was the most productive pass rusher PER rush... My fault, he didn't blitz enough to lead in that catergory. The formula for this is...

QB Disruption Points = Sacks + Hits (0.75) + Pressures (0.75)

Pass-Rushing Productivity = QB Disruptions Points / Number of Pass Rushes x 100.


Sounds right, He doesnt blitz as much as many because he has coverage ability but when he does he isnt bad at all.
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jrry32


Joined: 04 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlaZeN37 wrote:
jrry32 wrote:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ys-intangibles012711
Long lead the NFL in hurries

Pro Football Focus has Tamba Hali down as the NFL leader in QB Pressures.



http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2010/11/19/pass-rushing-productivity-whos-making-the-most-of-their-opportunities/

This article is claiming he was the most productive pass rusher PER rush... My fault, he didn't blitz enough to lead in that catergory. The formula for this is...

QB Disruption Points = Sacks + Hits (0.75) + Pressures (0.75)

Pass-Rushing Productivity = QB Disruptions Points / Number of Pass Rushes x 100.


That was also posted November 19th. His play declined in the final 7 games. In the first 9 games(before the article), he recorded 2 sacks, 7 QB hits and 15 QB Pressures, in the final 7 games(after the article), he recorded .5 sacks, 1 QB hit and 8 QB pressures.
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The LBC wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Don't worry. Sean Payton would pass the ball in a Tornado.

But would he do it in a Sharknado?
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roasthawg


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From a 49er fan's pov I'll tell you that Manny's not a good pass rusher. He does other things well but rushing the qb just isn't one of them.

I ran the numbers from the op through a linear regression and the only coefficient that was significant was the 3-cone drill. So group "A" appears to be legit... group "B" might be a bit of data mining.
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incognito_man


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mse326 wrote:
I hope this is true because Barwin actually meets the criteria on all 3 levels. We need him to be a feared pass rusher.


I friggin' loved Barwin and wanted him bad. I was disappointed he went to a 4-3 team in the draft so I'm excited to see him as an OLB now!
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bigballin


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

incognito_man wrote:
mse326 wrote:
I hope this is true because Barwin actually meets the criteria on all 3 levels. We need him to be a feared pass rusher.


I friggin' loved Barwin and wanted him bad. I was disappointed he went to a 4-3 team in the draft so I'm excited to see him as an OLB now!


YUP me too! As a chiefs fan this was the one guy I really wanted us to draft!
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BlaZeN37


Joined: 19 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

roasthawg wrote:
From a 49er fan's pov I'll tell you that Manny's not a good pass rusher. He does other things well but rushing the qb just isn't one of them.

I ran the numbers from the op through a linear regression and the only coefficient that was significant was the 3-cone drill. So group "A" appears to be legit... group "B" might be a bit of data mining.



He has atleast shown flashes of decent pass rushing ability, especially the first half of 2010 that was stated above.

Not sure what data mining is, but I do agree section A has a better correlation than B. Although I still feel having BOTH jumping numbers being very high shows great exlposion from a player. It really stinks that there are no numbers on Harrison and Suggs because I would love to see how they fit into all of this.
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Sciz


Joined: 19 Jan 2009
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Location: Iowa
PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigballin wrote:
incognito_man wrote:
mse326 wrote:
I hope this is true because Barwin actually meets the criteria on all 3 levels. We need him to be a feared pass rusher.


I friggin' loved Barwin and wanted him bad. I was disappointed he went to a 4-3 team in the draft so I'm excited to see him as an OLB now!


YUP me too! As a chiefs fan this was the one guy I really wanted us to draft!


Guys, none of your pain is even close to mine! Here's the first thread I ever made on FF. The Patriots passed on him three times. Evil or Very Mad
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