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jrry32
Joined: 04 Jan 2011
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 Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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| incognito_man wrote: | | jrry32 wrote: | | incognito_man wrote: | | nfldraftguru1 wrote: |
What seperates Fairley/Bowers from Watt is elite athletic ability and that's what #1 picks have. Chris Long was a bad pick at #2, so that's not a good reason. |
You say that like Fairley and Bowers have more athletic ability when the opposite is actually true 
A point of comparison...JJ Watt recorded a quicker 3 cone than Clay Matthews. He was also just 0.03 seconds slower than Matthews in the short shuttle.
He also had a better vertical and an equal broad jump as Matthews.
And he has 50+lbs on Matthews |
Yea and Tim Tebow recorded a quicker 3 cone than Jahvid Best, they also had the same exact short shuttle time at 4.17. Tebow had 37 pounds on Best. What does that prove?
| incognito_man wrote: | | brownie man wrote: | | jrry32 wrote: | | brownie man wrote: | | Hopefully six to the Browns. I actually want him more than Bowers now he had a ton of heart is a hard worker and untapped potential I see a poor mans Mario Williams and I think he'll be dominate. |
A POOR MANS MARIO WILLIAMS? This is why the combine is so overrated.  |
I said this before the combine actually i can give u the url if you want. They actually compare alot both 6'6, long wingspan, explosive, great athletes, Watt doesnt have the sack production but I'd say has potential to be better against the run. Both hold their weight well and are physical specimens. But I love the fact they're both hard workers. I think Watt is the LE version of Williams. |
Mario Williams is the closest comparison from an athletic ability for Watt at this time.
I don't think people understand just how much Watt blew the combine up. |
Really? Because I think Adam Carriker is a pretty good comparison as well. Go look at his numbers. |
Point 1 - what does it prove? Exactly what I was trying to prove...that J.J. Watt has elite athletic ability.
Point 2 - Watt performed significantly better in the 3 cone, vertical and broad jump compared to Carriker. He also outperformed him by a bit in the 40 and bench press.
Not really all that close at all. |
Point 1 - On the football field, he doesn't. That's why the combine is overrated. Watt doesn't sniff Williams athleticism or Matthews athleticism in pads. This is exactly why the combine is overrated, try judging Watt based on what he does in pads on a field, not in shorts on a track.
Point 2 - The point is that Carriker blew up too in post-season workouts. Watt wasn't an exceptional pass rusher on the field like Carriker.
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Falastine
Joined: 02 Sep 2008
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| Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | The combine boosted his stock but lets not pretend for a second that Williams wasn't already considered a top 5 pick before the combine. On top of that, he was a very productive sacker that recorded 14.5 sacks in his final season. Watt has 11.5 career sacks.
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Mario Williams' stock prior to the combine was top-10 fluid. He wasn't considered a surefire top-5 pick and surely wasn't a bonafide #1 overall pick. You just admitted that the Combine helped Super Mario's stock. Why is that unfathomable for J.J. Watt, who was already widely considered as a top-15 pick?
And Watt is a converted TE from two years ago. Comparing his career stats in any way is completely unfair.
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nfldraftguru1
Joined: 07 Feb 2009
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| Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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After watching Watt for the past 2 years at UW, he's not the same freak athlete Mario is once he's in pads. But he proved that he can be a great LE in the NFL with his combine. Still doesn't touch Mario athletically.
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Falastine
Joined: 02 Sep 2008
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| Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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| jrry32 wrote: | | incognito_man wrote: | | jrry32 wrote: | | incognito_man wrote: | | nfldraftguru1 wrote: |
What seperates Fairley/Bowers from Watt is elite athletic ability and that's what #1 picks have. Chris Long was a bad pick at #2, so that's not a good reason. |
You say that like Fairley and Bowers have more athletic ability when the opposite is actually true
A point of comparison...JJ Watt recorded a quicker 3 cone than Clay Matthews. He was also just 0.03 seconds slower than Matthews in the short shuttle.
He also had a better vertical and an equal broad jump as Matthews.
And he has 50+lbs on Matthews |
Yea and Tim Tebow recorded a quicker 3 cone than Jahvid Best, they also had the same exact short shuttle time at 4.17. Tebow had 37 pounds on Best. What does that prove?
| incognito_man wrote: | | brownie man wrote: | | jrry32 wrote: | | brownie man wrote: | | Hopefully six to the Browns. I actually want him more than Bowers now he had a ton of heart is a hard worker and untapped potential I see a poor mans Mario Williams and I think he'll be dominate. |
A POOR MANS MARIO WILLIAMS? This is why the combine is so overrated. |
I said this before the combine actually i can give u the url if you want. They actually compare alot both 6'6, long wingspan, explosive, great athletes, Watt doesnt have the sack production but I'd say has potential to be better against the run. Both hold their weight well and are physical specimens. But I love the fact they're both hard workers. I think Watt is the LE version of Williams. |
Mario Williams is the closest comparison from an athletic ability for Watt at this time.
I don't think people understand just how much Watt blew the combine up. |
Really? Because I think Adam Carriker is a pretty good comparison as well. Go look at his numbers. |
Point 1 - what does it prove? Exactly what I was trying to prove...that J.J. Watt has elite athletic ability.
Point 2 - Watt performed significantly better in the 3 cone, vertical and broad jump compared to Carriker. He also outperformed him by a bit in the 40 and bench press.
Not really all that close at all. |
Point 1 - On the football field, he doesn't. That's why the combine is overrated. Watt doesn't sniff Williams athleticism or Matthews athleticism in pads. This is exactly why the combine is overrated, try judging Watt based on what he does in pads on a field, not in shorts on a track.
Point 2 - The point is that Carriker blew up too in post-season workouts. Watt wasn't an exceptional pass rusher on the field like Carriker. |
Watt's junior year is better than any year of Carriker's. Personally I was much, much more impressed with Watt last year than at any point when I watched Carriker at Nebraska, especially in terms of lateral ability.
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Falastine
Joined: 02 Sep 2008
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| Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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| nfldraftguru1 wrote: | | After watching Watt for the past 2 years at UW, he's not the same freak athlete Mario is once he's in pads. But he proved that he can be a great LE in the NFL with his combine. Still doesn't touch Mario athletically. |
Very few DEs do. That's why he was called a poor man's Williams.
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briz
Joined: 14 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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Watt tackles like a fairy, id be surprised if he wasnt gay. He has no leadership skills, he makes nobody around him better. Hes one of those un athletic overachievers who maxed out their ability to just fit in, he will get shut down in the NFL by everyone but scrub teams.
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incognito_man
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
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Location: Madison
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| Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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| jrry32 wrote: |
Point 1 - On the football field, he doesn't. That's why the combine is overrated. Watt doesn't sniff Williams athleticism or Matthews athleticism in pads. This is exactly why the combine is overrated, try judging Watt based on what he does in pads on a field, not in shorts on a track.
Point 2 - The point is that Carriker blew up too in post-season workouts. Watt wasn't an exceptional pass rusher on the field like Carriker. |
lol
He displayed athleticism on the field too. LIS before, normally I'm very low on WI players, but Watt caught my eye early in 2009 and has only improved since then. He's literally the only WI prospect I've liked, so there is absolutely no bias involved on my end. The combine confirmed what I've seen on the field for him. He's the best prospect from WI I've seen not named Joe Thomas.
Watt really has it all. Production in big conference, elite athleticism, and work ethic. Whoever ends up taking him whether it's in the top 5 or at the end of the 1st is going to be happy with him.
There's really not much separating J.J. Watt from guys like Bowers, Fairley, Quinn, and Cam Jordan other than one thing...that I won't get into here. |
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incognito_man
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| Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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| briz wrote: | | Watt tackles like a fairy, id be surprised if he wasnt gay. He has no leadership skills, he makes nobody around him better. Hes one of those un athletic overachievers who maxed out their ability to just fit in, he will get shut down in the NFL by everyone but scrub teams. |
Did he steal your girlfriend or something? |
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jrry32
Joined: 04 Jan 2011
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| Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Falastine wrote: | | Watt's junior year is better than any year of Carriker's. Personally I was much, much more impressed with Watt last year than at any point when I watched Carriker at Nebraska, especially in terms of lateral ability. |
Watt does have better agility than Carriker, that's why I said Carriker is his floor. I don't dislike Watt but I don't think he's comparable to Mario Williams. I think he'll be a good LDE, Grant Wistrom like...maybe a little better sacker. Nothing wrong with that but I'm not taking that guy in the top 5.
| Falastine wrote: | | Quote: | The combine boosted his stock but lets not pretend for a second that Williams wasn't already considered a top 5 pick before the combine. On top of that, he was a very productive sacker that recorded 14.5 sacks in his final season. Watt has 11.5 career sacks.
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Mario Williams' stock prior to the combine was top-10 fluid. He wasn't considered a surefire top-5 pick and surely wasn't a bonafide #1 overall pick. You just admitted that the Combine helped Super Mario's stock. Why is that unfathomable for J.J. Watt, who was already widely considered as a top-15 pick?
And Watt is a converted TE from two years ago. Comparing his career stats in any way is completely unfair. |
I'm not comparing his career stats to Mario's. I'm comparing his 11.5 sacks in 2 seasons at DE to Mario's 14.5 sacks as a Junior.
It's not unfathomable but I don't think Watt was considered a surefire top 15 pick before the combine. It should help his stock but it doesn't take a guy who was in the 15 to 25 range(imo) and make him a top 5 prospect. Game tape >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Combine
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Delphos Jones
Joined: 28 Sep 2008
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| Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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| briz wrote: | | Watt tackles like a fairy, id be surprised if he wasnt gay. He has no leadership skills, he makes nobody around him better. Hes one of those un athletic overachievers who maxed out their ability to just fit in, he will get shut down in the NFL by everyone but scrub teams. |
This is a terrible post.
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Falastine
Joined: 02 Sep 2008
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| Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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| briz wrote: | | loool at #1 pick Watt is a scrub! lmao |
Excellent point. I concede the thread.
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jrry32
Joined: 04 Jan 2011
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| Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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| incognito_man wrote: | | jrry32 wrote: |
Point 1 - On the football field, he doesn't. That's why the combine is overrated. Watt doesn't sniff Williams athleticism or Matthews athleticism in pads. This is exactly why the combine is overrated, try judging Watt based on what he does in pads on a field, not in shorts on a track.
Point 2 - The point is that Carriker blew up too in post-season workouts. Watt wasn't an exceptional pass rusher on the field like Carriker. |
lol
He displayed athleticism on the field too. LIS before, normally I'm very low on WI players, but Watt caught my eye early in 2009 and has only improved since then. He's literally the only WI prospect I've liked, so there is absolutely no bias involved on my end. The combine confirmed what I've seen on the field for him. He's the best prospect from WI I've seen not named Joe Thomas.
Watt really has it all. Production in big conference, elite athleticism, and work ethic. Whoever ends up taking him whether it's in the top 5 or at the end of the 1st is going to be happy with him.
There's really not much separating J.J. Watt from guys like Bowers, Fairley, Quinn, and Cam Jordan other than one thing...that I won't get into here. |
No, he really hasn't. He doesn't explode off the line like a top pick should and doesn't show the edge speed. There is something separating Watt from Bowers, Fairley and Quinn...sacks.
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JustisM
Joined: 13 Jan 2007
Posts: 16605
Location: Hood River, Oregon
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| Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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No.....
Not even close
Maybe top 10
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Falastine
Joined: 02 Sep 2008
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| Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Watt does have better agility than Carriker, that's why I said Carriker is his floor. I don't dislike Watt but I don't think he's comparable to Mario Williams. I think he'll be a good LDE, Grant Wistrom like...maybe a little better sacker. Nothing wrong with that but I'm not taking that guy in the top 5. |
Watt is quicker, more explosive, displayed better hand-play than Carriker, more range, and clearly has more potential than Carriker ever did. Watt's best year in college also dwarfs Carriker's, so he's also got the edge from a production standpoint. All that said, Carriker was drafted 13th overall in what was one of the most top-end heavy drafts of all time. So for Watt, who's clearly a better prospect, to be drafted in the top-5 in a draft that's not so top heavy doesn't seem unrealistic to me.
And why are you so against comparing Watt to Williams? Watt recorded one less rep on the bench, the same exact broad jump, bigger hands, longer arms, better 3-Cone, and a better 2-yd Shuttle.
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EliteTexan80
Joined: 30 Apr 2007
Posts: 37195
Location: Three time Mr. fanTASTic!
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| Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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| briz wrote: | | loool at #1 pick Watt is a scrub! lmao |
| briz wrote: | | Watt tackles like a fairy, id be surprised if he wasnt gay. He has no leadership skills, he makes nobody around him better. Hes one of those un athletic overachievers who maxed out their ability to just fit in, he will get shut down in the NFL by everyone but scrub teams. |
briz,
We're here to talk football, not just take shots at people with no basis or reason. Please keep that in mind as you post in the future.
- ET
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