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Half a decade of futility
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frankmoore


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mercury22 wrote:
It wasn't that much better under Jimmy Johnson. For all the hype he got of being a Draft Guru...

Obviously JJ thought the key was quantity. But two of crap is still crap.

True, but as has been said before, Jimmy took a shotgun approach to drafting. He averaged 1.5 picks per round of draft while he ran the Dolphins.

Actually, I used to keep a database of Miami's draft picks and I can tell you a couple of things about Jimmy's drafts. 1) Jimmy hit on all of his 2nd round draft picks for Miami. There isn't a bad one in the bunch. 2) He hit on most of the defensive linemen he drafted. If you take a look at his drafts, position by position, he kicked butt when it came to D-linemen.

That said, Jimmy was complete idiot when it came to offense. He whiffed on almost all of the O-linemen he selected. The sum total of career receptions for all of the WRs he drafted in 4 years was less than 20. The one TE he drafted is now our long snapper. While he selected a few decent RBs, he still averaged about 1 bust per success in that category.

Continuing on his legacy of failure, he also mangled LBs (only Zach and Derrick Rodgers did anything of note for Miami) and DBs (only had success with Madison and Surtain).

In the final analysis, for a guy whose hallmark was talent identification and acquisition, JJ was worse than Wannstedt -- at least he had limited success drafting positions throughout the roster.
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Mercury22


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

frankmoore wrote:
Mercury22 wrote:
It wasn't that much better under Jimmy Johnson. For all the hype he got of being a Draft Guru...

Obviously JJ thought the key was quantity. But two of crap is still crap.

True, but as has been said before, Jimmy took a shotgun approach to drafting. He averaged 1.5 picks per round of draft while he ran the Dolphins.

Actually, I used to keep a database of Miami's draft picks and I can tell you a couple of things about Jimmy's drafts. 1) Jimmy hit on all of his 2nd round draft picks for Miami. There isn't a bad one in the bunch. 2) He hit on most of the defensive linemen he drafted. If you take a look at his drafts, position by position, he kicked butt when it came to D-linemen.

That said, Jimmy was complete idiot when it came to offense. He whiffed on almost all of the O-linemen he selected. The sum total of career receptions for all of the WRs he drafted in 4 years was less than 20. The one TE he drafted is now our long snapper. While he selected a few decent RBs, he still averaged about 1 bust per success in that category.

Continuing on his legacy of failure, he also mangled LBs (only Zach and Derrick Rodgers did anything of note for Miami) and DBs (only had success with Madison and Surtain).

In the final analysis, for a guy whose hallmark was talent identification and acquisition, JJ was worse than Wannstedt -- at least he had limited success drafting positions throughout the roster.


frank, solid post. Yeah, JJ clearly had a shotgun mentality. I was most suprised by his lack of ability to find offensive line talent. Something he did well in Dallas. It seems that perhaps JJ was more lucky than good in Dallas.

As far as Wannstadt goes, he did okay in with his 2nd rounders as well (Todd Wade, Chris Chambers, and Eddie Moore). Eddie Moore still needs another season before we can totally judge him. Also Wanny had pretty solid success in the fourth round (Dyer, MCMichael, and Poole). Dyer not as solid.

Any way you slice it, it still comes up nuts. The Johnson/Wanndstadt era has mercifully ended. Time for a new sheriff and hopefully a soilid draft to set up a bright future.
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frankmoore


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Merc,

I'm with you. There is something that you said that caught my attention.

Mercury22 wrote:
I was most suprised by his lack of ability to find offensive line talent. Something he did well in Dallas.

I always wondered why Johnson's O-line picks were so god awful and I thought "gee, he did so well in Dallas". But there are a couple of things to consdier.

First, a lot of the guys who made him famous (Tuinei, Newton, Gogan) were there when he got there. Second, he had Jerry Jones to help him draft, granted this is not the same as Bill Belichick having Scott Pioli, but I think Jones had more influence than Johnson would ever like to admit. Third, of the 11 O-linemen drafted by Dallas while JJ "ran the ship", not very many developed a name for themselves in Dallas. To the best of my knowledge, it was really only Stepnoski and Erik Williams. Guys like Wisniewski, Myslinski, (damn, he drafted a lot of Polish guys), James Brown, and Ron Stone seem to have made their names elsewhere.
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Mercury22


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

frankmoore wrote:
Merc,

I'm with you. There is something that you said that caught my attention.

Mercury22 wrote:
I was most suprised by his lack of ability to find offensive line talent. Something he did well in Dallas.

I always wondered why Johnson's O-line picks were so god awful and I thought "gee, he did so well in Dallas". But there are a couple of things to consdier.

First, a lot of the guys who made him famous (Tuinei, Newton, Gogan) were there when he got there. Second, he had Jerry Jones to help him draft, granted this is not the same as Bill Belichick having Scott Pioli, but I think Jones had more influence than Johnson would ever like to admit. Third, of the 11 O-linemen drafted by Dallas while JJ "ran the ship", not very many developed a name for themselves in Dallas. To the best of my knowledge, it was really only Stepnoski and Erik Williams. Guys like Wisniewski, Myslinski, (damn, he drafted a lot of Polish guys), James Brown, and Ron Stone seem to have made their names elsewhere.



I think you are correct, Frank. I will say that getting Stepnoski and Williams deserves a nod, no doubt. He does also deserve some credit for guys that made names for themselves elsewhere, but not much. I think JJ's much ballwhooed draft expertise is highly overrated. In fact, Dan Pompei just published an article that covers some of the guys that he compares to JJ type picks, meaning guys that produced in college but might not be combine warriors. Pompei was essentially stating that JJ was a drafting guru. I think we have pointed out, quite well, that this legacy of JJ's might be a little overrated. My thinking is with his shotgun approach to the draft, anybody could find some gems.

Anyway, yeah, JJ didn't have as much success at o-line as he is given credit for in Dallas, but he had even less success in Miami. Maybe we need to hire Jerry Jones as our GM? Shocked j/k.

One other interesting thing. I mentioned the Dolphins have had a greta number of the top backs on the roster from the 1999 draft. Another I forgot about was ranked #8. We signed Sedrick Irvin several years back, he never played for us, but was signed. In other words we've had 5 of the top 8 on our roster from the 1999 draft and none panned out.

Lets hope this years crop is better.
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